Interview with Hania Al.Obaidi
Interviewer:Laura Hamblin
Translator:Blsam Abd Lkareem
Transcriber:Anoud Halasa
L.H:Now telling us your names, your ages, & were are you from?
Balsam: my name is balsam,balsam abd l kareem Hani,iam a dentist iam 48 yrs old iam grandmother now, this is my daughter Hania.
H.O:hi my name is hania iam 32 yrs old
L.H:32???? Oh come on…
Hania:23….. because of this baby,,this is my baby yousef,he is my grand son.
L.H: Could we see his hair?
H:ok
L.H:Ohhh,how old is he?
H:he is now 2 months..
Balsam:1 week to the two months..he didn’t complete….he's 7 weeks.
L.H:Oh wow that's good.Now talk about your study & collage?
H.O:iam industrial designer.studied in a school for fun musical balleh,elemantery and secondary in Baghdad,after (?) a balarina,she went to an academic of art ,undergrads,she studies industrial designs…
L.H:What happened?
H.O: In my second year of undergrade's studies I was engaged to my husband,I was engaged for two years I cant get married because of the responsibilities that encounter my studies..i loved my studies in undergrads in general interior design specialize in specific area ,in my case I love industrial design so I was (?) and according to the regulations at the university of Baghdad,it could be more involved or specialized if we are chosen as the best students for the morning studies and the afternoon studies in the university,so I became the 1st student above all,because I love to do my graduate program in industrial design.
For my forth year of study, before graduation as a requirement for graduation I have to do two projects for special design .one is signed as a specific idea ,it's a furniture the another one has to be a unique idea and (?) power instrument that should be unique of its design.before graduation,I did my research,I thought of a machine that we do (?) on remote control, and for that I have to connect with all the electrical engineers to build a circumistance,it was a challenging idea.But in that time the situation in the surrounding neighbourhood was becoming worse as well as the situation in the country that was not very situated.
H.L:What time is this?
H.O:It was last year.i wasn’t able to connect with all (?) because of the situation,I had to change my idea into a hoover like.it's an instrument that wipes floor on remote control industry.So I have to be able to make a simple idea because I have to present it for the final exam exhibition before the graduation those who failed to exhibit it for the final exhibition are not graduated even though if they had scored the best results for the year required they have within the idea…..
In condition of that, starting with my 1st idea which I had to design an external cover for the instrument because I have to change the idea..
I didn’t measure much time for my sec idea , so I have to go for a simple thought and simple design just to (?) the time for the requirement for my graduation.
It has to do it from A to Z.
Something (?) they have to design every singal detail for the pieces keeping the external cover (?) they have to design it ,they have to build the set where they manufactured.They maybe(?) for making(?) from fiber glass,the cover has to be thick with colors.
L.H:This is after your graduation's level?
H.O:yes.
L.H: Wow..
H.O:The problem I faced with my education with my year of my industrial design when I be apart to a place on my 1st year after finishing my 1st year of industrial design.at the university my full reliance and everybody's reliance in industrial design is on the work show that attached to our studies because basically all the woods will be get it from the work show (?)the design for every instruments we need even the material to set our models,to build our designs are available in the work show and they would be provided it would be easy only we put our ideas ..
And what happens in the war & because of the war,there's a piece of work was stolen,it was luted, therefore we had to suffer with the struggle with the exhibition of our ideas and projects,so finally I managed to present my instrument for the exhibition (?)
So professor Mohammad who was the one who saw my exhibition(?) he really liked the idea so much…called for many journalists to interview with me ,,I deserve be happy for it and the(?) to generize it for Germany because our baseful in the industrial design is germany and germany is fulling informed of what we have ever developed within our areas of study.
So before that,He Cheking my idea together with other ideas to germany who share it to the students there & the students were fascinated with our project such as my idea.He said you should continue exchanging ideas to the students abroad than ourselves, & also he said to me that you have when graduate you have to join the university to be one of our faculty and become one of our staff so that you work with us on projects.
H.O:I was asked by a professor to apply for(?) because my equipment was unique and as I am started the process and I was doing the heater well signature…
(?) unique position make me(?) I was faced with the situation that the family was threatened and I had to leave the country even in terms I couldn’t even get my equipment a piece of equipment because it belongs to the university which becomes part of (?) exhibition of the university so I couldn’t get it.It was very difficult for me to make a new one because it's a very complicated process to do.
So I was promised by the professor that just to be invited to the university because he would put my name in a list of people who gets a scholarships to go and finish their education in Germany,and one specific Germany is becoming(?) the industrial country where ideas could be implemented and ideas ended up studying and continue my digree,but it still didn’t happen.
So I was very securative I woulnt be the best student in the class, because only best students can get the opportunity to get the scholarships,this student it means the highest scores ,I was so afraid because the kind of his study that we had is very unique.it's not available in any other arab's country so I had no way to go except to Jordan or Syria for my(?) they told me bye the telephone that I was selected as the best student for the best(?) but I lost the joy of receiving it myself they had to communicate the information for me on phone even if they were the best memories we had to the student's(?) it's the day when the photos collected,photos taken they prepared for it,it's an important day in the student's life even it was a bad day.we were very(?)prepared than (?) surrounded by focus, and planes were (?) we couldn’t reach the university to take our graduation's photos.
It was very sad for my males colleagues because iam the only female who studies this branch and iam the only graduate,not a woman at night,not a girl at night for this branch of study ,iam the only one (?) I couldn’t make it for the graduation there.
L.H: What day was that?
H.O:It was(?)
All the male colleagues of my (?) told me and they said that all the cars decorated,they had all the music people,I couldn’t get there to (?) so they promised that they would make a special graduation ceremony for the new situation.
(?) It seems that iam unlucky of my graduation's photos because we scheduled after 10 days they do it,at this time I was ready and as I was preceeding to do it,I received a call from my younger sisters who were shouting and crying,they said dad is in blood because it has been an explosion .so in that same day, my father had been an accident, there was an explosion in the car,he was bleeding so I had to stop again to the hospital,seems I was not lucky to celebrate my graduation's day,but despite everything my colleagues (?) to hospital and want to see him,and when I saw that he is ok ,my friends decided that met us no matter just to take(?) because we had to do it when we are on the other side (?) this is in my case….
Then our instruments in our college with the exhibits we were asked to exhibit in the main university which is in Baghdad at different locations and at the same time we were asked to submit the photos of our instruments and equipments in American's exhibition,American's university asked for to see participate with our photo images of the equipments,we notice the participant in the U.S university exhibition and match to take the photos images of our instruments but yet we couldn’t go and participate in the(?) exhibition in the main university,because it was difficult to transfer the equipment from one location to another inside Baghdad (?) to the state.we were not sure that our instruments will not be stolen on the road or even had been saved to the university,it's an expensive equipment that he(?)
By that time I had a break with one of my two tutors to pass me the good news about my graduation, because it has noway to get to the university,we have received our certificate by that time.The 1st threat that we have received was through the examination's time that we couldn’t leave the house of my family,so two of my colleagues came and picked me up to the university to (?) from the exams because my family couldn’t leave..
So as a department of the requirement of the master's degree,program is to take a computer training course and to trust becoming one of the(?) even though I had a computer training but I have to attend one of the colleges to obtain some(?) from there.Regulation of the course was the(?) I convinced it one week because I knew all the material(……?....). we were there, we heard gun shots,and he heard lots of gun shots and disturbing the university,it was one of our female students,female colleagues who got killed shot inside the uni inside our location where we horrified in..
L.H:What was the ( postpone?)?
H.O:This was at the university that simply crossed the road from where I (met)? Ibn Al Haitham university and then forced students were even pregnant she was in the uni center,the collage center,and we were conforming the exam on one of these homes,& all are not inside where we were,& we were not allowed to go down and even our families couldn’t come and take us ,we didn’t understand why…
L.H: Do you know who shot them?
H.O:It was just a car passing by that,shot them and continue.
L.H: Do u think it was a random shot or(?)???
H.O: No it was intended for her because we were all from different study or intention.This is graduate program's exam,so one of the other girls who knew that one ,she said that she was very innocent person that had no harm on anybody but she was killed.We were watching the whole thing from up floor,and it was very scary because the collage's guys and the university's guys came all around and (?) closed the gates.The army were surrounding and also we were afraid because the American came to check the incidents,& we know that Americans if anybody shoots randomly they would shoot anybody in the surrounding ,we were staying in the hall that all was surrounded with glass and were so scared that if anything happens we don’t know what we have to do.
So in that time ……? I have received…..?i decided to leave ,so my father and my brother left the country first because theye were expecting to care for our departure.My mother stayed behind me because she knew how much I (?) this graduate study & it an opportunity for me that nobody gets easily,so she stayed behind me before until I finish that course….
L.H:Could you tell me more about the threat?
How was the threat and why?
H.O: So we all know in Iraq that (?) are so different basically anything that should …..(?) that families of good standard are subject to threat some engineers ,some doctors.even one's house or a person who is a figure in his society is a subject to threat,so there are so many reasons of threat that nobody knows why…
So in our(?) we are a family that is known in our community that could be ok,our house shows that we are(?) my father is an engineer,my mother is a doctor. So we are people who can pay(?) that's why(?)
At that time my father and my brother left to Jordan for some reasons or the other (?) obstacles(?)to enter to Jordan so my father was permitted to enter Jordan but he had to leave my brother to return back to Iraq,so my father wouldn’t let him go back so he returned with my brother again.
L.H: So did u get to the border?
H.O:Yes
The father and the son got to the border and then came back again..when they came back,I finished my course,but at the same time I was engaged so I have to marry because (it would be?) two years engaged without marriage so I could be registration, several registration, I left Iraq to come to Jordan without my husband..It was on the same day we had been the ceremony the signature I left…So when we decided to come on the bus here to Jordan they allowed again allowed us to enter and my brother didn’t allow him in,so he had to go back to Syria this time and stayed in Syria my husband in his turn decided to join me & again he wasn’t allowed to enter so he joined my brother in Syria ,so we have my brother and my husband in Syria we don’t know why is this happen,because from the time of the war till the time when we decided to settle in Jordan we were coming three times a year,in every time we were entering without any problem, while the situation became so bad that the choices came(?) that they were not even allow to Jordan.So they had to remain in Syria for 6 months without knowing their destination (?) because they couldn’t back to Iraq where they are threatened or come here because they are not allowed to enter.
So after six months of staying in Syria my brother tried to enter again and in this time he managed to enter but my fiancé was not allowed to enter,my husband then decided to return back to Iraq because by that time he finished his money, he had not to come,he was very(?) to Syria and living, and there was no work opportunity so he returned
Back to Iraq.
L.H: (what is year this now?)?
H.O:That's last year.My husband tried 8 times to join us taking different tools ,by land comes Syria to Jordan but it didn’t work,by land come Baghdad to Jordan also didn’t work,by airport Baghdad to Jordan doesn’t work ,Syria to Jordan ,8 times,8 different times you must flying they didn’t want,and we were so scared because we know that since you go back if any family's member is threatened(?) the rest of the family or like another member of the family as a hostage until they finish the money,so it's not only a threat for him but for any member of his family that was a kidnapped ,he would have to pay or somebody would have to pay instant.
L.H:What was the rashional that they were giving him in turned him away?
H.O:There was nothing acceptable or logical basically young people are not allowed to enter Jordan,young single people,at one stage they put a poster signs and say Iraq(?) between ages 16_36 are not allowed to enter Jordan.
L.H:Is that male and female or just male?
H.O:No it’s just male.so one time they say, we don’t take young people and other time they said there's a stamp refused stamp(?) passport so we cant get in until passing 24 hours,so they remaind in the desert for 24 hours until the time passes he tries again and again ,they were(?)
L.H:could your husband(?)???
H.O:My husband finished accounting same like me he did a project with my brother to have car sales exhibition and was successful business but they had to close it as they left Iraq,so in his business in Iraq every time a car's explosion happens or a car wants explode it was very scary because the American's hammers would come to their exhibition (?) break glass,break defence and with their hammers have to (?) all cars(?) in one of these exhibitions,one of these workshops that cars get(?)
& then they discovered that there's nothing,so typical they would take photos of the place & then they would give us papers and then they tell us go and ask for compensation of the damage cost of course nobody goes there and to go And ask for compensation because we receive a threat of life so we move (?)
L.H:Now can we say that if an individual would to go to U.S head quarters asked for compensation ,someone else in the community would see them and would elaborate with Iraqis and make a threat?????
L.H:We don’t know but currently(?) much money to be existent,it comes to our friends,making a beautiful vella,very nice place,they furnished it to the top furniture it was top glass(?) they exploded everything ,they damaged everything and then they said :"Oh" it was a mistake,we meant to go to the house behind your house but now you take the mistake itself,,come and take the compensation and after taking photos and everything,come and take your compensation.when this person of our friends went to take his compensation or claim,he received a contact or he was contact to threat ,if you come here again or if you try to come you would be killed,he was trying to explain to those people that I don’t elaborate with them,I just need to take what my(?) are because I know (………..?).
So finally they decided to close the business because it doesn’t work well,this business is basically they were trading cars that belong to individual owners,so if those people come and relay and explode cars and damage cars,break windows,from where they gonna get the money and compensate for the people who leave their cars in the exhibition in the exhibition place,How much do they get instead so they cant afford(?) so they closed the business and finished it.So when I came to Jordan and I gave up hope (her husband) he was thought her fiancé that he's gonna be allowed inside Jordan then we decided to do our wedding in Syria.
So by December 2006 we decided to do our wedding in Syria it was difficult because it was examination's time and my sisters were attending to school that was finally decided to go for the marriage because my mother saw that I was so depressed I was continuing the prime for 6 months,everytime that they say they are coming we come happy and (?) then they end up the lock in a room in an airport,and they are not allowed in.
So usually the way they're treated them,when they came from airport locked in a room 2 by 2 where every other Iraqi is kept in the same room,that not allow to eat,not allow to drink,and not allow to go to toilet.
My brother had to knock their door very hard and he was telling shouting at them,what was the crime that we committed? We have coming to a sister country because we have threatened for death in our own countries,what is the crime that we have committed that we are treated this way(?) respect or turn us with our dignity, we don’t(?)
So finally they allowed an Egyptian worker to be(?) by them to bring them food with all inside (?)
Every time they tried to enter to airport,this was the(?) until one of the cases they were kept for 2 days,until another plane came to take them back to Syria.so when they came by road then they would be stayed in the desert where there's no food or water,so finally when I went to Syria we had to do the wedding in 4 days so that my mother and my sisters go back and I remained in Syria for 6 months.
I did become pregnant during 6 months and it was very bad for me to stay in Syria since there's no more work ,again we tried to enter Amman but they didn’t allow him in.
L.H:…………………………????
H.O:It doesn’t go this way,even she has a resident,even (?) is Jordanian,we come to the border they would allow me in but not him.so he had to go back to Iraq and I went to work and I came to Amman because I was very much disturbing with my pregnancy.
L.H:what work would he do?
L.H:Ah ok he went to work….ok
H.O:He stood not get a job in Iraq because work opportunities in Baghdad are dominated by people who are taking whole of the positions who bring only the relatives and people who they know to work.
I decided that I should try my opportunity to work because iam the kind of a person who cant sit at home,and iam a designer so I don’t want to stop,I couldn’t do faster the opportunities ,so I don’t know where iam settling yet,so I didn’t want to commit,then I tried to find a job for opportunities because I like continue and make caricature figures so I started looking for a work in newspapers and children's magazines, I decided to take my line as to quit Iraqi's situation and caricature figures
L.H:Are they gravity nobles, or cartoon nobles?
H.O:Cartoons but only about Iraqi's situations
L.H:right that's good,so even when I was in Iraq I was doing for the newspaper al Siasy and al Watan,I was doing caricatures figures about these situations in Iraq.
L.H:so would u doing political cartoons?
H.O:Yes
L.H:Could I see some of themplz?
H.O: yes, but she doesn’t have them now but she is sttending to send us by email..
L.H:Could I use them in this production?
H.O:yes,
L.H:Thank you
L.H:Do you have something else?
H.O:( ……………?………….)
L.H:what about the birth of your child? Is he there for that?Has he seen his son?
H.O:the problem is that if I tried to go to Syria,I will might not be able to enter again but if he comes to Syria (?) because Iraqi are rejected now no matter what they do.
So he finalley asked me to come to Iraq,so that he could see his son ,but I'm so scared to pick my baby there,because iam not sure we can provide(?) care for him,iam not even sure(?) I cant imagine in his(?) iam not sure of….
Iam asking her marriage ia a love story so they are a kind of bomb when(?)
She said that he was even worried about me having my pregnancy in Iraq because of the(?) so when I had a neighbor ,he was so afraid that my neighbor would be on time(…?.) ( I couldn’t hear the rest of the answer and the question after)
H.O:You could call the emergency but then they either come or they don’t.So my husband's friend's wife she was a (labor?)and when she couldn't go through the (?) ,she had to wait 6 hours and the(?) was over.
Besides other obstacles for example my blood's tipe is negative,so I need to take an injection,so iam not sure we will find that injection so he was so scared that I (?)
(?) my baby when I was in the neighbor hood there's noway that I could take my baby to Iraq and I cant stay in Syria without a job,so I don’t know what is the end of this story.So finally I agreed with one of my colleague students to try to get my certificate's graduation's certificate from my university because then I would probably be able to apply for studies abroad here I couldn’t do that because the equivalent to my studies would be interior design and my (?) is not interior design,,,industrial design specific.
So I would have form another attempt is to take my certificate and tour in the embassies on the hope that somebody would accept to give me approval for studies,I know this is very dare opportunities because all the Iraqi people are rejected for(?????)
L.H:Iam so sorry
H.O:No it's ok
L.H:No it's not ok,it's horrible.,please could u say your name?
H.O: H.A.N.I.A…..O.B.A.I.D.I
So finally I decided to take my graduate (?) for embassies hope and wish for the German embassy , for an example to give me opportunity to study.this is my last hope..but because when I called the professor ,the tutor who had promised me that I should take this scholarship in Germany when I come back to the embassy…
I told her about what happened,she told me that the professor who promised you this himself received a threat and he left the university to go to study teach in (?) college.
L.H:Was the professor(?)?
H.O: He had told us this before although he went to Germany and prepared for us to go and do our scholarships there but he did tell us that he doesn’t expect to stay because of this subject of threat,like any other doctors who were teaching in the university…He went to (?) university because the situation is better there,so I lost hope,I will try again but I know that nothing will happen but I have to try.
L.H: are you still making ( political cartoons?)?
H.O: yes but iam free (?)
L.H: So u don’t study or work?
H.O: *( I didn’t understand the answer well)
L.H: where do u see yourself after 5 years ( graduation)?
H.O:* ( again couldn’t here it)
(………..?......) options to go back to Iraq with my baby!! No, absolutely no..
H.O:In Amman no way because how long (is he left)* without seeing his son?
So if he goes to Syria,he may be allowed to enter or not (?) and if I want to see him ,I don’t know if I would be allowed back to Jordan.
L.H: Is there anything new you want to tell the people in the west to understand better the situation there,the situation of Iraq?
H.O: Not all the Iraqis are bad people, so we didn’t do anything wrong to be so much blames by western countries as well as Arab countries.
Many(?) Iraqis were harmed by the distorted image that was presented about Iraq….
( the last two lines were not so clear) so sorry *
Saturday, December 22, 2007
Nadima Ibraheem/Hala's mom
Interview with Nadima Ibraheem (N.I.)
Interviewer: Laura Hamblin (L.H.)
Translator: Hala Al-Sarraf
Transcriber: Reine El-wer
East Amman 11/18/2007
L.H.: Name and age.
N.I.: My name is Nadima Ibraheem Kadem and I am 76 years old.
L.H.: Where are you from?
N.I.: I am from Baghdad.
L.H.: I would like you to tell us your story, and begin with what your life was like before, during Saddam's regime, during the fall, the war, how did you come here?
N.I.: During the time of Saddam we lived a life with very low pension salary; we used to take what is equivalent to 5 JDs, which wasn’t enough for buying a tray of eggs. We were not allowed to travel for 20 years during Saddam time. And then, a start of a wave of thieves and criminals in houses, and we witnessed a wave of raiding houses criminals, killing people in their houses and stealing their property. It happened to me personally, twice they raided my house. I was living n my house alone and I have a basement with windows entering to the basement, they broke the bars on the windows of the basement, they went to the basement but I had built the entrance of the basement to the rest of the house so they did not manage to come to me.
L.H.: Who is "they" and what is the time period?
N.I.: It was the time like 3-4 years before -she calls it revolution- against him, against Saddam, by 3-4 years and then it became very dangerous for me to live alone.
L.H.: What year are you speaking of? What time during?
N.I.: 2000. The next time they came to my house it was from the sealing, where they tried to make a hole in the sealing of the bathroom. My neighbors felt that and they started shooting in the air, and then they were afraid and escaped.
Since that time, I left my house and my furniture, and until today I never lived n my house again. Then I came to El-karrada area where I lived with my daughter. I have nobody. And then the Bush war started. I escaped with a family, with whom I rented a car to the Syrian border. At that time we rented the car to go to Syria, we paid 1000 dollars for the car rent. Just as we arrived at the check point in Traibeel, they closed the border and said nobody is allowed to leave the country anymore. Then we wanted to stay at the border country but we were told that they are going to bomb the border point so we had to leave. Then we went to a city called Heet. We hid with a family; I was paying them for my food and sleeping in their house. Then the American planes raided the Heet post office. I contacted my brothers who were in Baghdad from the neighbors' house and told me to come back because it is going to take long-this war- and you will not be able to enter Baghdad. Then when I came back, I went to Al Amerya area where my son lives. I stayed in his house, sleeping in the family room, and because of the severity of the bombs, the doors would open at night with unlock because of the severity of the noise. Then I was very scared, I escaped from Al Amerya. I went to another area called Al Athamya where I stayed with my brother and then I hid in his house but the attacks were very severe in that area as well, we were hiding in one of the corners but the glass was breaking every time and we were very scared. We were not able to walk in full; we were crawling on hands and legs. Then I wanted to go to my sister's house in Karrada, that house was neighboring Saddam Hussein's palace. And of course, there were many tanks near Saddam`s palace and when we approaching, the tanks would start pointing at us to kill us. Then they were raiding the palaces of Saddam. Then I was alone in the house so I escaped from inside the house to go and hide in the garden, because I was afraid that the house will be demolished on me. As soon as the bombs stopped, thieves started again, people start robbing Saddam`s palace and other houses where people have evacuated their houses. There was me and a Christian neighbor that I have next door. We were the only people left in the neighborhood. I lived like this for about a month or so, I was alone.
L.H.: How did you get your food?
N.I.: my neighbor was able to walk and go out to sec which ever of the shops that were open, she would bring us food to eat, of course electricity, they hit electricity so we were cut from electricity, accordingly all food we had in the refrigerator and freezers got rotten and we had to get rid of it. In one of the cases, I had to call my brothers house that lives in a different area, to bring me some food, because I was running out of food. They took risk by going in front of tanks to bring me food. We had no electricity and there was no water so the water source we had was basically bringing it from the river, Bush is not good.
L.H.: Sorry
N.I.: And those who came later are even worse. So again we had killing. So what they did is to increase salary, so now my salary has become 100 000 Iraqi Dinar which is equivalent to 80 dollars.
L.H.: Which salary you mean?
N.I.: Pension
N.I.: And 80 dollars are not enough at all.
L.H.: Tell me about your husband and your marriage and your children?
N.I.: My husband was a pharmacist, and I have a daughter and a son. And I have a son from my previous husband who was a physician. My children don’t know me now coz they left their houses, they left their furniture everything, and went to Emirates, they are afraid of being killed.
L.H.: Where are your children now?
N.I.: My sons are now in Emirates, in Abu-Dhabi and Dubai.
L.H.: What do they do there?
N.I.: They don’t me, they don’t send to me and even my pension, I applied here to receive my pension in Jordan, and for that I'd pay 5 JD`s every month they bring it, and now it's been over two months, and I didn’t receive my pension yet. My husband has properties like shops and small house which were rented by, but people now are occupying those premises without paying any rent. Now that I want to go to Baghdad to go and receive my pension from there, but then if I go I have to pay all the penalties for the Jordanian government which is 1.5 Dinar for everyday and its 45 JDs every month. I can't leave the country coz then I have to pay all the penalties at the border, so I can't go to Baghdad.
L.H.: Tell us about your living situation now?
N.I.: now my health is not good coz I always have high blood pressure and have problems with my joints, my knees, I have swelled ankles and can not walk. So look at my teeth, I can't go to the dentist because he charges very high here. I can't eat properly.
L.H.: What do you eat?
N.I.: I basically put the bread in a source, so I have to take food in source to eat it or sometimes, I just swallow food which is not good. Even my eyes, now if you check my blood pressure you can see how high it is.
L.H.: What was life like when you were a young woman?
N.I.: I had a beautiful life, with my husband my life beautiful, when he died it was never the same. I've been to England, 4 times, I've been to France, 3 times, to Emirates, Cairo, Turkey. I wanted to visit the states, I wanted to see my daughter but they did not give me Visa, I really wanted to see the US, I wanted to meet Oprah because I love her, I like her show.
L.H.: I'll tell you what I'm going to do; I'll send a copy from this tape to Oprah.
N.I.: Oh, I wish
L.H.: Yes, that’s nice, I love Oprah too.
N.I.: I watch Oprah everyday, and l love Dr.Phil and Rachel Ray. God is generous.
L.H.: What do you miss the most about Iraq?
N.I.: Frankly, I don’t miss anything in Iraq, I only miss my place in Baghdad that I miss, and basically if I go there and get my pension my money, that’s it.
L.H.: What do you think has to happen in order to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: I wish that our relation with the states becomes very good so that we have peace, I want to have a good relation with the US. I want an evacuated government; we don’t want a government of thieves and corrupted.
L.H.: Do you think the situation in Iraq would improve or stay about the same or get worse if the US military left?
N.I.: If we remain in the hands of Iraqis we will not be good.
L.H.: Why is that do you think?
N.I.: The way I see it is that Americans are protecting us, so some how they chase the terrorists and protect us.
L.H.: Do you really believe this?
N.I.: Maybe the Americans are protecting us. I wouldn’t know but maybe they will protect us.
L.H.: What is your greatest joy?
N.I.: My biggest joy in life is to see my grandson well, and for my granddaughter who is a student to be graduated from the United States. The people of America are good. I love America.
L.H.: Even though they are occupying your country right now?
N.I.: I love Americans because they are loyal to their country, and straights in their dealings. What have we see from our oil resources that we have? We have seen nothing good from our resources of petrol. The government is taking advantage of all the recourses, if it wasn’t for my daughter who is supporting me where would I go? I wouldn’t be able to live in Baghdad. It is very hot and no water. Nobody is to serve or aid me, how can I live in Baghdad? I've been here for a whole year.
L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to return to Baghdad?
N.I.: of course. I would go to Baghdad, my country, my city, but only if there is security, no killing and if there is electricity. Then I can live there. Sometimes I wonder what should I do with myself, should ask for refugee status in Jordan but I think what If they don’t let me go out again, or let me get inside the country again.
L.H.: Why are you afraid?
N.I.: If I ask for refugee status, so they won't make me pay 1.5 JDs per day, it's difficult, 45 JDs every month.
L.H.: Are you able to get medical care in Jordan?
N.I.: No. medical treatment here is private and expensive. I went to a doctor for surgery asked for 15000 dollars. How on earth can I pay this money?! The name of this doctor is Basel El-Masry; he wants 15000 US dollars to do the surgery for my knees. I am still strong, I wash my clothes, I cook everyday, I clean, I can do everything myself.
L.H.: I had some of your food and it is delicious
N.I.: come tomorrow or any day you want and I'll cook for you delicious food. Other people that come here love my food. Why don’t you come stay here instead of a hotel? We have nobody. My son-in-law is in Iraq and my granddaughter is in Iraq. She did her training in Jordan and her other medical training in the United States, but when she went back to Baghdad medical school they didn’t approve her training in these countries , they asked her to do the training in Baghdad so that’s why she went back to Baghdad and her father is with her.
L.H.: How much longer does your granddaughter have?
N.I.: She still has 25 days to go.
L.H.: And then she will come here?
N.I.: It will take her about two months to come here.
L.H.: Can you show a picture of you and your husband?
N.I.: Here, I was pregnant with my son then, he was born in 1958.
L.H.: How was your life at that time, in the 1950`s?
N.I.: At that time I wasn’t veiled, I would be wearing strapless, we went to clubs and parties and traveling, and this was my life there.
L.H.: Lovely, but what have to happen for there to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: We have to have fair nice international relationships with other countries; we must have good relations so that we have peace. Nobody should interfere in our internal affairs. They should help the people of Iraq. With the mercy of God we will have peace in Iraq.
L.H.: what do you think is the biggest thing that is preventing peace right now?
N.I.: Hopefully we would have a better government in the United States that can give us a hand. GOD is merciful. We are peaceful people, we used to love Jewish people that lived in Iraq, and we love our Christian community. When I was a baby, I was breast fed by a Christian woman. When I was a little girl, we lived in an area where our Jewish neighbors would ask me as a young kid to go and light a candle on Saturdays. I used to be the one who light the candles. We are peaceful, we (?) relations with Jewish people and Christians all around us at that time.
When my daughter was going through a heart surgery in the States and she was alone there, I dreamt -and I was alone here, she was alone there- there was a cross next to her, and JESUS was standing next to her. So when I had that dream, I woke up in the morning and I told my family, don’t worry she will be safe and from that day I stopped crying. So every 15th of August which is the day I cook this special dish it's called (Dolma), and I send it to the church in Bab El-Mo`atham because it is the day of Virgin Mary and it is her religious day. So this is how we are. And I am a Muslim thank God, but I don’t have any discrimination, and I don’t have any sectarian feeling toward one sect or another. Thank God.
L.H.: Is there anything, any special message you would like to give to people in the west about what it is like to be an Iraqi woman now in your situation?
N.I.: I would love in my age to be a friend to everybody; I'd love to be a friend to Israeli people, or the American people. For me I don’t have any negative feeling even if that person is Israeli, in my age, I have no discrimination in this age.
L.H.: With all of your life experience and having your country going through several wars during your lifetime, what advice would you give to the next generation?
N.I.: In my life I witnessed the war of Rasheed Aali Jeelani, and this is like ages ago, 50 years ago. I witnessed the war with the British people. And I witnessed all the battles with Palestine and all revolutions; I remember all the wars even the 14th of July but the worse war I saw were both Bushes wars; the one of the Kuwait and this one is even more powerful on us; Bush the father and the son, they hurt us a lot. But this one is the worse.
L.H.: I'm sorry. What was the specific event during the delivery of your son when you were pregnant?
N.I.: It was the revolution against the king. On that day was my due, so they put me in a car to take me to the hospital to deliver, and in the street I saw the people in demonstrations and they were carrying the hand and the leg of the king's cousin Abdel Elah, so I was so scared. I went back home and they brought midwives for me to help me at home deliver my son. The people killed King Faisal, they killed the whole family.
L.H.: What advice would you give?
N.I.: My advice to the youth is not to interfere in politics, only studying and educating themselves and not interfere in politics. For those who want to interfere in politics, they should work on the principles of keeping good relations with the neighbors and with other countries.
L.H.: What is your best memory?
N.I.: I was very happy when I had my daughter, as a girl because I didn’t have girls, so I was so happy to have her.
L.H.: What is the greatest loss you experienced?
N.I.: I lost her father, I lost my husband. After that my whole life was in disturbance, there was no stability afterwards.
L.H.: How did he die?
N.I.: He had stomach cancer. He died out of cancer, he lived only one month and then he died it was sudden
L.H.: So how many years did he have?
N.I.: He was 64 then. Its 27 years so far.
L.H.: What are some of those challenges that you faced as a widow?
N.I.: Being alone is the most difficult part. I was living alone, its hard.
L.H.: How did you support your family?
N.I.: By that time they finished their education. At the beginning of my family, I was sawing and making dresses. But after my husband died, I was basically living on the rents that I receive from the premises we have and on the pension, although it was very modest, but we lived contented with that. Life was reasonable then, it was cheap, we didn’t witness as much inflation as we do now. At times we were renting a whole house for 5 Dinars. Now nobody is paying the rent, everybody is paying in the premises, we have free of charge.
L.H.: So you have no control over your property?
N.I.: In Iraq there is no dominance of law, there is no respect for the government, the people do not respect the government and therefore there is no application of rules and regulations.
L.H.: Is there something you hope to do, something special you hope to do before you leave this life?
N.I.: I wish to go to the states; this is what I want to do before I go. Since the time of Saddam, I wanted to go to the states as a tourist, but Saddam did not allow us to travel so I've seen London, also Russia, I did not see it, but I don’t like it. A tourist trip to London costs a hundred dinars only, so that’s why I managed to see all these countries, I went 4 times to Saudi Arabia, I've been to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, in all I went with my husband in tourists.
L.H.: Thank you
Interviewer: Laura Hamblin (L.H.)
Translator: Hala Al-Sarraf
Transcriber: Reine El-wer
East Amman 11/18/2007
L.H.: Name and age.
N.I.: My name is Nadima Ibraheem Kadem and I am 76 years old.
L.H.: Where are you from?
N.I.: I am from Baghdad.
L.H.: I would like you to tell us your story, and begin with what your life was like before, during Saddam's regime, during the fall, the war, how did you come here?
N.I.: During the time of Saddam we lived a life with very low pension salary; we used to take what is equivalent to 5 JDs, which wasn’t enough for buying a tray of eggs. We were not allowed to travel for 20 years during Saddam time. And then, a start of a wave of thieves and criminals in houses, and we witnessed a wave of raiding houses criminals, killing people in their houses and stealing their property. It happened to me personally, twice they raided my house. I was living n my house alone and I have a basement with windows entering to the basement, they broke the bars on the windows of the basement, they went to the basement but I had built the entrance of the basement to the rest of the house so they did not manage to come to me.
L.H.: Who is "they" and what is the time period?
N.I.: It was the time like 3-4 years before -she calls it revolution- against him, against Saddam, by 3-4 years and then it became very dangerous for me to live alone.
L.H.: What year are you speaking of? What time during?
N.I.: 2000. The next time they came to my house it was from the sealing, where they tried to make a hole in the sealing of the bathroom. My neighbors felt that and they started shooting in the air, and then they were afraid and escaped.
Since that time, I left my house and my furniture, and until today I never lived n my house again. Then I came to El-karrada area where I lived with my daughter. I have nobody. And then the Bush war started. I escaped with a family, with whom I rented a car to the Syrian border. At that time we rented the car to go to Syria, we paid 1000 dollars for the car rent. Just as we arrived at the check point in Traibeel, they closed the border and said nobody is allowed to leave the country anymore. Then we wanted to stay at the border country but we were told that they are going to bomb the border point so we had to leave. Then we went to a city called Heet. We hid with a family; I was paying them for my food and sleeping in their house. Then the American planes raided the Heet post office. I contacted my brothers who were in Baghdad from the neighbors' house and told me to come back because it is going to take long-this war- and you will not be able to enter Baghdad. Then when I came back, I went to Al Amerya area where my son lives. I stayed in his house, sleeping in the family room, and because of the severity of the bombs, the doors would open at night with unlock because of the severity of the noise. Then I was very scared, I escaped from Al Amerya. I went to another area called Al Athamya where I stayed with my brother and then I hid in his house but the attacks were very severe in that area as well, we were hiding in one of the corners but the glass was breaking every time and we were very scared. We were not able to walk in full; we were crawling on hands and legs. Then I wanted to go to my sister's house in Karrada, that house was neighboring Saddam Hussein's palace. And of course, there were many tanks near Saddam`s palace and when we approaching, the tanks would start pointing at us to kill us. Then they were raiding the palaces of Saddam. Then I was alone in the house so I escaped from inside the house to go and hide in the garden, because I was afraid that the house will be demolished on me. As soon as the bombs stopped, thieves started again, people start robbing Saddam`s palace and other houses where people have evacuated their houses. There was me and a Christian neighbor that I have next door. We were the only people left in the neighborhood. I lived like this for about a month or so, I was alone.
L.H.: How did you get your food?
N.I.: my neighbor was able to walk and go out to sec which ever of the shops that were open, she would bring us food to eat, of course electricity, they hit electricity so we were cut from electricity, accordingly all food we had in the refrigerator and freezers got rotten and we had to get rid of it. In one of the cases, I had to call my brothers house that lives in a different area, to bring me some food, because I was running out of food. They took risk by going in front of tanks to bring me food. We had no electricity and there was no water so the water source we had was basically bringing it from the river, Bush is not good.
L.H.: Sorry
N.I.: And those who came later are even worse. So again we had killing. So what they did is to increase salary, so now my salary has become 100 000 Iraqi Dinar which is equivalent to 80 dollars.
L.H.: Which salary you mean?
N.I.: Pension
N.I.: And 80 dollars are not enough at all.
L.H.: Tell me about your husband and your marriage and your children?
N.I.: My husband was a pharmacist, and I have a daughter and a son. And I have a son from my previous husband who was a physician. My children don’t know me now coz they left their houses, they left their furniture everything, and went to Emirates, they are afraid of being killed.
L.H.: Where are your children now?
N.I.: My sons are now in Emirates, in Abu-Dhabi and Dubai.
L.H.: What do they do there?
N.I.: They don’t me, they don’t send to me and even my pension, I applied here to receive my pension in Jordan, and for that I'd pay 5 JD`s every month they bring it, and now it's been over two months, and I didn’t receive my pension yet. My husband has properties like shops and small house which were rented by, but people now are occupying those premises without paying any rent. Now that I want to go to Baghdad to go and receive my pension from there, but then if I go I have to pay all the penalties for the Jordanian government which is 1.5 Dinar for everyday and its 45 JDs every month. I can't leave the country coz then I have to pay all the penalties at the border, so I can't go to Baghdad.
L.H.: Tell us about your living situation now?
N.I.: now my health is not good coz I always have high blood pressure and have problems with my joints, my knees, I have swelled ankles and can not walk. So look at my teeth, I can't go to the dentist because he charges very high here. I can't eat properly.
L.H.: What do you eat?
N.I.: I basically put the bread in a source, so I have to take food in source to eat it or sometimes, I just swallow food which is not good. Even my eyes, now if you check my blood pressure you can see how high it is.
L.H.: What was life like when you were a young woman?
N.I.: I had a beautiful life, with my husband my life beautiful, when he died it was never the same. I've been to England, 4 times, I've been to France, 3 times, to Emirates, Cairo, Turkey. I wanted to visit the states, I wanted to see my daughter but they did not give me Visa, I really wanted to see the US, I wanted to meet Oprah because I love her, I like her show.
L.H.: I'll tell you what I'm going to do; I'll send a copy from this tape to Oprah.
N.I.: Oh, I wish
L.H.: Yes, that’s nice, I love Oprah too.
N.I.: I watch Oprah everyday, and l love Dr.Phil and Rachel Ray. God is generous.
L.H.: What do you miss the most about Iraq?
N.I.: Frankly, I don’t miss anything in Iraq, I only miss my place in Baghdad that I miss, and basically if I go there and get my pension my money, that’s it.
L.H.: What do you think has to happen in order to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: I wish that our relation with the states becomes very good so that we have peace, I want to have a good relation with the US. I want an evacuated government; we don’t want a government of thieves and corrupted.
L.H.: Do you think the situation in Iraq would improve or stay about the same or get worse if the US military left?
N.I.: If we remain in the hands of Iraqis we will not be good.
L.H.: Why is that do you think?
N.I.: The way I see it is that Americans are protecting us, so some how they chase the terrorists and protect us.
L.H.: Do you really believe this?
N.I.: Maybe the Americans are protecting us. I wouldn’t know but maybe they will protect us.
L.H.: What is your greatest joy?
N.I.: My biggest joy in life is to see my grandson well, and for my granddaughter who is a student to be graduated from the United States. The people of America are good. I love America.
L.H.: Even though they are occupying your country right now?
N.I.: I love Americans because they are loyal to their country, and straights in their dealings. What have we see from our oil resources that we have? We have seen nothing good from our resources of petrol. The government is taking advantage of all the recourses, if it wasn’t for my daughter who is supporting me where would I go? I wouldn’t be able to live in Baghdad. It is very hot and no water. Nobody is to serve or aid me, how can I live in Baghdad? I've been here for a whole year.
L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to return to Baghdad?
N.I.: of course. I would go to Baghdad, my country, my city, but only if there is security, no killing and if there is electricity. Then I can live there. Sometimes I wonder what should I do with myself, should ask for refugee status in Jordan but I think what If they don’t let me go out again, or let me get inside the country again.
L.H.: Why are you afraid?
N.I.: If I ask for refugee status, so they won't make me pay 1.5 JDs per day, it's difficult, 45 JDs every month.
L.H.: Are you able to get medical care in Jordan?
N.I.: No. medical treatment here is private and expensive. I went to a doctor for surgery asked for 15000 dollars. How on earth can I pay this money?! The name of this doctor is Basel El-Masry; he wants 15000 US dollars to do the surgery for my knees. I am still strong, I wash my clothes, I cook everyday, I clean, I can do everything myself.
L.H.: I had some of your food and it is delicious
N.I.: come tomorrow or any day you want and I'll cook for you delicious food. Other people that come here love my food. Why don’t you come stay here instead of a hotel? We have nobody. My son-in-law is in Iraq and my granddaughter is in Iraq. She did her training in Jordan and her other medical training in the United States, but when she went back to Baghdad medical school they didn’t approve her training in these countries , they asked her to do the training in Baghdad so that’s why she went back to Baghdad and her father is with her.
L.H.: How much longer does your granddaughter have?
N.I.: She still has 25 days to go.
L.H.: And then she will come here?
N.I.: It will take her about two months to come here.
L.H.: Can you show a picture of you and your husband?
N.I.: Here, I was pregnant with my son then, he was born in 1958.
L.H.: How was your life at that time, in the 1950`s?
N.I.: At that time I wasn’t veiled, I would be wearing strapless, we went to clubs and parties and traveling, and this was my life there.
L.H.: Lovely, but what have to happen for there to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: We have to have fair nice international relationships with other countries; we must have good relations so that we have peace. Nobody should interfere in our internal affairs. They should help the people of Iraq. With the mercy of God we will have peace in Iraq.
L.H.: what do you think is the biggest thing that is preventing peace right now?
N.I.: Hopefully we would have a better government in the United States that can give us a hand. GOD is merciful. We are peaceful people, we used to love Jewish people that lived in Iraq, and we love our Christian community. When I was a baby, I was breast fed by a Christian woman. When I was a little girl, we lived in an area where our Jewish neighbors would ask me as a young kid to go and light a candle on Saturdays. I used to be the one who light the candles. We are peaceful, we (?) relations with Jewish people and Christians all around us at that time.
When my daughter was going through a heart surgery in the States and she was alone there, I dreamt -and I was alone here, she was alone there- there was a cross next to her, and JESUS was standing next to her. So when I had that dream, I woke up in the morning and I told my family, don’t worry she will be safe and from that day I stopped crying. So every 15th of August which is the day I cook this special dish it's called (Dolma), and I send it to the church in Bab El-Mo`atham because it is the day of Virgin Mary and it is her religious day. So this is how we are. And I am a Muslim thank God, but I don’t have any discrimination, and I don’t have any sectarian feeling toward one sect or another. Thank God.
L.H.: Is there anything, any special message you would like to give to people in the west about what it is like to be an Iraqi woman now in your situation?
N.I.: I would love in my age to be a friend to everybody; I'd love to be a friend to Israeli people, or the American people. For me I don’t have any negative feeling even if that person is Israeli, in my age, I have no discrimination in this age.
L.H.: With all of your life experience and having your country going through several wars during your lifetime, what advice would you give to the next generation?
N.I.: In my life I witnessed the war of Rasheed Aali Jeelani, and this is like ages ago, 50 years ago. I witnessed the war with the British people. And I witnessed all the battles with Palestine and all revolutions; I remember all the wars even the 14th of July but the worse war I saw were both Bushes wars; the one of the Kuwait and this one is even more powerful on us; Bush the father and the son, they hurt us a lot. But this one is the worse.
L.H.: I'm sorry. What was the specific event during the delivery of your son when you were pregnant?
N.I.: It was the revolution against the king. On that day was my due, so they put me in a car to take me to the hospital to deliver, and in the street I saw the people in demonstrations and they were carrying the hand and the leg of the king's cousin Abdel Elah, so I was so scared. I went back home and they brought midwives for me to help me at home deliver my son. The people killed King Faisal, they killed the whole family.
L.H.: What advice would you give?
N.I.: My advice to the youth is not to interfere in politics, only studying and educating themselves and not interfere in politics. For those who want to interfere in politics, they should work on the principles of keeping good relations with the neighbors and with other countries.
L.H.: What is your best memory?
N.I.: I was very happy when I had my daughter, as a girl because I didn’t have girls, so I was so happy to have her.
L.H.: What is the greatest loss you experienced?
N.I.: I lost her father, I lost my husband. After that my whole life was in disturbance, there was no stability afterwards.
L.H.: How did he die?
N.I.: He had stomach cancer. He died out of cancer, he lived only one month and then he died it was sudden
L.H.: So how many years did he have?
N.I.: He was 64 then. Its 27 years so far.
L.H.: What are some of those challenges that you faced as a widow?
N.I.: Being alone is the most difficult part. I was living alone, its hard.
L.H.: How did you support your family?
N.I.: By that time they finished their education. At the beginning of my family, I was sawing and making dresses. But after my husband died, I was basically living on the rents that I receive from the premises we have and on the pension, although it was very modest, but we lived contented with that. Life was reasonable then, it was cheap, we didn’t witness as much inflation as we do now. At times we were renting a whole house for 5 Dinars. Now nobody is paying the rent, everybody is paying in the premises, we have free of charge.
L.H.: So you have no control over your property?
N.I.: In Iraq there is no dominance of law, there is no respect for the government, the people do not respect the government and therefore there is no application of rules and regulations.
L.H.: Is there something you hope to do, something special you hope to do before you leave this life?
N.I.: I wish to go to the states; this is what I want to do before I go. Since the time of Saddam, I wanted to go to the states as a tourist, but Saddam did not allow us to travel so I've seen London, also Russia, I did not see it, but I don’t like it. A tourist trip to London costs a hundred dinars only, so that’s why I managed to see all these countries, I went 4 times to Saudi Arabia, I've been to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, in all I went with my husband in tourists.
L.H.: Thank you
Friday, October 26, 2007
Interview with B.
Interview with B (Iraqi Christian widow—husband was an Iraqi-Canadian, daughter Rita, sister of S.J. whom I've also interviewed and whose transcript is posted)
Interviewer Laura Hamblin East Amman 9/21/07
L.H.: Tell me about your experience in Iraq.
B: Every bad thing I have experienced, I have experienced in Iraq. When my husband was killed in Iraq, we –my daughter and I—suffered a lot. My husband was an Iraqi-Canadian. He was originally from Iraq, but he had Canadian citizenship. He had his own business in Iraq—his own company. Once he called me from his company, this was two years ago [2005] he called and said he would be home in half an hour. A few minutes later security called me to say that he was killed with his colleague in their car. It was a small distance between his company, and where he was killed in the car, so I went and found the police. Eight days later, after his death, while we were having the grieving ceremony, four strange people came and told us to end the ceremony or they would kill us all—explode the whole gathering. Then I called my husband’s sister (who is also Canadian), and told her about our difficult situation, because the attackers also threatened to kidnap my daughter.
L.H.: Do you know who these people were?
B: They were from a group who said they support the Sunni people of Iraq. This is all I knew about them—according to the investigations conducted by the police.
L.H.: Do you know why they would want your husband dead?
B: The colleague of my husband’s was truly a Canadian—originally from Canada, and those people [who killed them] thought that my husband and his colleague were working for Americans—that’s why they attacked them and killed them.
L.H.: What kind of business did your husband have?
B: It had to do with oil transportation—oil export and import. After this event they stole the car from me, and they [the attackers] took the building and occupied the company’s building, and they occupied it and took it for their own. So we consulted my husband’s family in Canada, and they offered for us to go to the Green Zone where there is a Canadian commercial secretary, Ben Roswell, who offered help for us and let us to stay in the Green Zone for our safety for that period. This was only eight days from my husband’s death. So we stayed in the Green Zone for six months at the Canadian Embassy. After that, for six months, there was an agreement between the Canadian government and the Austrian government, so they accepted us to live in Austria for six months only. After that we had to transfer to Canada. But after six months of living in Austria, no one could help us to get into Canada, so we had to come back to Amman. That is why we are here.
L.H.: Even though you had dual citizenship because you married a Canadian?
B: Only my daughter got Canadian citizenship and a passport. He couldn’t get that for me.
L.H.: How long have you been here?
B: Two years, after being in Austria for six months. So I applied to UNHCR for help to go to Canada, and they agreed to help because my daughter is Canadian. So they told me they cannot force me to go back to Iraq because my child is Canadian, so they said they would help us to go to Canada.
L.H.: So what is the time frame you are looking at to go to Canada?
B: The Canadian Embassy asked me for two documents—one that shows that I had not been accused of any criminal acts before—that I had good conduct. The second document would show that I dealt well with people, that I didn’t make any trouble—that I was a good citizen. But I was unable to produce these documents. Since I am in Jordan for two years without legal residency, it was difficult to get these documents. So the UNHCR contacted the Canadian Embassy again, telling them it is so difficult for me to get these documents. So they said they might facilitate my application without the documents.
L.H.: Would you have to go back to Baghdad to get the documents?
B: No, these documents would have to be issued fro the Jordanian government, because she has been here for two years.
L.H.: Why is it difficult to get those documents?
B: Because I am not a legal resident in Jordan. According to my understanding no other embassy but the Canadian Embassy asks for this type of document. I have suffered a lot from the Canadian Embassy and their rules. I have suffered from then until now. Even when I asked the Commercial Secretary of Canada why they couldn’t offer a visa with I couldn’t get a visa with my daughter, he said, “no I deal with business visas not government visas.” Even the cost of the trip from Baghdad to Amman, and from Amman to Austria, and from Austria to Amman—we had to pay for all of the costs. Nobody supported us. We paid $3,500 US dollars for the trip. They took a loan from my sister-in-law, through a Canadian bank, but she had to surrender her passport for the loan.
L.H.: So are you working now?
B: Yes, I am doing housekeeping work; I prepare everything in the house. When I was here in Jordan two years ago, I went to the Canadian Embassy asking if they could offer any salary for my daughter. They [the embassy] said no they could not offer such a thing, unless the person were inside Canada. They cannot offer anything to a Canadian person who is outside Canada.
L.H.: What does your daughter do while you are working? Do you bring your daughter with you?
B: I’d take her to my sister’s while I worked, or she used to go to school while I worked. If everything were ok, she’d be in fifth grade, but she is now in the third grade because she lost two years due to the situation [prior to 2007, the laws in Jordan did not permit the children of Iraqi refugees to go to school].
L.H.: Where do you see yourself in five years?
B: Canada. They promised me to get there. I am now waiting for a medical test and a visa.
L.H.: How long will you have to wait?
B: I called UNHCR a few days ago, and they asked me to prolong the validity days of my passport because it’s now expired. They asked me to be ready anytime.
L.H.: Do you have relatives in Canada that you’ll be with?
B: The brother and sister of my husband are living there and the sister is so helpful. She has helped us a lot. She will be very glad to receive us in Canada.
L.H.: Could you tell me about some of the difficulties of being a widow?
B: I have a lot of problems, especially in having my daughter go to school, because I am the only provider in the family. No one is helping us financially. CARATAS offered to pay for Iraqi children in Jordan, but they won’t pay for my daughter—because she is Canadian! A previous employee at CARATAS said “We cannot do anything for her because she is Canadian. If she were Iraqi we could do a lot for her.”
L.H.: Do you have hope? And if so, where does that source of hope come from?
B: I only believe in God—he is my only hope in this life. There is priest nearby in the local church who used to support us. He paid for the first payment for the school for this year.
L.H.: Tell me what Iraq was like when you were a little girl.
B: It was so good and I hope everything can be like it was when I was a little girl. I would like to go back to I if everything would settle down and be clear.
L.H.: What would have to happen in order for things to be stable in Iraq?
B: According to the situation now in Iraq, only a miracle could help. But it so difficult for the situation to settle down; I don’t think it will happen in the near future.
L.H.: Do you thing things would improve if the Americans were to leave?
B: No, no it will get worse. It is a social war now—it is a civil war between the Iraqis themselves. If the Americans leave, it will get worse. It is impossible. There will be massive destruction in Iraq if Americans were to leave—mass destruction. I used to call my sister who is still in Iraq, and my sister told me, now we don’t feel secure when the Iraqi police pass by unless they are accompanied by Americans because the I police are not so good.
L.H.: How is your sister in Iraq?
B: Throughout the previous nine months we lost contact and I don’t know anything about her. She may have left Iraq.
L.H.: Are your parents alive.
B: My mother passed away five years ago, and my father was with my sister in Iraq, the one we lost contact with.
L.H.: What makes you laugh?
B: Here in Jordan? . . . There are some nice things here in Jordan. We used to go to church. Praying was some source of pleasure. I used to have terrible depression and although I have two sisters near by, I used to stay in my house until four months ago. I used to go from my house to work, and back from my work back to my house. It was a fixed routine. I only used to talk to my sisters by phone, although they are living near by. I was one of the first of the people who were accepted by UNHCR. Many people were accepted after me, and now they are resettled outside. That adds a lot to my depression.
L.H.: Is there something else you would like the west to be aware that we haven’t asked you?
B: No. Is it likely that the American media didn’t show the American people about what is going on in Iraq?
L.H.: I think that the media has not shown much about Iraqi refugees. A lot of people in the West are not aware of what a big problem the refugees are suffering right now.
B: An American journalist who was of Iraqi roots, she used to work for Iraqi Broadcast Corporation, and she is now an American journalist. CARATAS brought her here and did an interview with me. There is another American journal called Mother Jones six months ago.
L.H.: Did you see the final published article?
B: No, they promised to bring me the article but they haven’t. They also promised not to publish a picture of my face.
L.H.: Why don’t you want your face published?
B: It is a social traditional. I don’t want to offend my husband’s family—they don’t like to show a woman in public. And I’m concerned that my husband’s mother will think I am using his death to show up in magazines.
Interviewer Laura Hamblin East Amman 9/21/07
L.H.: Tell me about your experience in Iraq.
B: Every bad thing I have experienced, I have experienced in Iraq. When my husband was killed in Iraq, we –my daughter and I—suffered a lot. My husband was an Iraqi-Canadian. He was originally from Iraq, but he had Canadian citizenship. He had his own business in Iraq—his own company. Once he called me from his company, this was two years ago [2005] he called and said he would be home in half an hour. A few minutes later security called me to say that he was killed with his colleague in their car. It was a small distance between his company, and where he was killed in the car, so I went and found the police. Eight days later, after his death, while we were having the grieving ceremony, four strange people came and told us to end the ceremony or they would kill us all—explode the whole gathering. Then I called my husband’s sister (who is also Canadian), and told her about our difficult situation, because the attackers also threatened to kidnap my daughter.
L.H.: Do you know who these people were?
B: They were from a group who said they support the Sunni people of Iraq. This is all I knew about them—according to the investigations conducted by the police.
L.H.: Do you know why they would want your husband dead?
B: The colleague of my husband’s was truly a Canadian—originally from Canada, and those people [who killed them] thought that my husband and his colleague were working for Americans—that’s why they attacked them and killed them.
L.H.: What kind of business did your husband have?
B: It had to do with oil transportation—oil export and import. After this event they stole the car from me, and they [the attackers] took the building and occupied the company’s building, and they occupied it and took it for their own. So we consulted my husband’s family in Canada, and they offered for us to go to the Green Zone where there is a Canadian commercial secretary, Ben Roswell, who offered help for us and let us to stay in the Green Zone for our safety for that period. This was only eight days from my husband’s death. So we stayed in the Green Zone for six months at the Canadian Embassy. After that, for six months, there was an agreement between the Canadian government and the Austrian government, so they accepted us to live in Austria for six months only. After that we had to transfer to Canada. But after six months of living in Austria, no one could help us to get into Canada, so we had to come back to Amman. That is why we are here.
L.H.: Even though you had dual citizenship because you married a Canadian?
B: Only my daughter got Canadian citizenship and a passport. He couldn’t get that for me.
L.H.: How long have you been here?
B: Two years, after being in Austria for six months. So I applied to UNHCR for help to go to Canada, and they agreed to help because my daughter is Canadian. So they told me they cannot force me to go back to Iraq because my child is Canadian, so they said they would help us to go to Canada.
L.H.: So what is the time frame you are looking at to go to Canada?
B: The Canadian Embassy asked me for two documents—one that shows that I had not been accused of any criminal acts before—that I had good conduct. The second document would show that I dealt well with people, that I didn’t make any trouble—that I was a good citizen. But I was unable to produce these documents. Since I am in Jordan for two years without legal residency, it was difficult to get these documents. So the UNHCR contacted the Canadian Embassy again, telling them it is so difficult for me to get these documents. So they said they might facilitate my application without the documents.
L.H.: Would you have to go back to Baghdad to get the documents?
B: No, these documents would have to be issued fro the Jordanian government, because she has been here for two years.
L.H.: Why is it difficult to get those documents?
B: Because I am not a legal resident in Jordan. According to my understanding no other embassy but the Canadian Embassy asks for this type of document. I have suffered a lot from the Canadian Embassy and their rules. I have suffered from then until now. Even when I asked the Commercial Secretary of Canada why they couldn’t offer a visa with I couldn’t get a visa with my daughter, he said, “no I deal with business visas not government visas.” Even the cost of the trip from Baghdad to Amman, and from Amman to Austria, and from Austria to Amman—we had to pay for all of the costs. Nobody supported us. We paid $3,500 US dollars for the trip. They took a loan from my sister-in-law, through a Canadian bank, but she had to surrender her passport for the loan.
L.H.: So are you working now?
B: Yes, I am doing housekeeping work; I prepare everything in the house. When I was here in Jordan two years ago, I went to the Canadian Embassy asking if they could offer any salary for my daughter. They [the embassy] said no they could not offer such a thing, unless the person were inside Canada. They cannot offer anything to a Canadian person who is outside Canada.
L.H.: What does your daughter do while you are working? Do you bring your daughter with you?
B: I’d take her to my sister’s while I worked, or she used to go to school while I worked. If everything were ok, she’d be in fifth grade, but she is now in the third grade because she lost two years due to the situation [prior to 2007, the laws in Jordan did not permit the children of Iraqi refugees to go to school].
L.H.: Where do you see yourself in five years?
B: Canada. They promised me to get there. I am now waiting for a medical test and a visa.
L.H.: How long will you have to wait?
B: I called UNHCR a few days ago, and they asked me to prolong the validity days of my passport because it’s now expired. They asked me to be ready anytime.
L.H.: Do you have relatives in Canada that you’ll be with?
B: The brother and sister of my husband are living there and the sister is so helpful. She has helped us a lot. She will be very glad to receive us in Canada.
L.H.: Could you tell me about some of the difficulties of being a widow?
B: I have a lot of problems, especially in having my daughter go to school, because I am the only provider in the family. No one is helping us financially. CARATAS offered to pay for Iraqi children in Jordan, but they won’t pay for my daughter—because she is Canadian! A previous employee at CARATAS said “We cannot do anything for her because she is Canadian. If she were Iraqi we could do a lot for her.”
L.H.: Do you have hope? And if so, where does that source of hope come from?
B: I only believe in God—he is my only hope in this life. There is priest nearby in the local church who used to support us. He paid for the first payment for the school for this year.
L.H.: Tell me what Iraq was like when you were a little girl.
B: It was so good and I hope everything can be like it was when I was a little girl. I would like to go back to I if everything would settle down and be clear.
L.H.: What would have to happen in order for things to be stable in Iraq?
B: According to the situation now in Iraq, only a miracle could help. But it so difficult for the situation to settle down; I don’t think it will happen in the near future.
L.H.: Do you thing things would improve if the Americans were to leave?
B: No, no it will get worse. It is a social war now—it is a civil war between the Iraqis themselves. If the Americans leave, it will get worse. It is impossible. There will be massive destruction in Iraq if Americans were to leave—mass destruction. I used to call my sister who is still in Iraq, and my sister told me, now we don’t feel secure when the Iraqi police pass by unless they are accompanied by Americans because the I police are not so good.
L.H.: How is your sister in Iraq?
B: Throughout the previous nine months we lost contact and I don’t know anything about her. She may have left Iraq.
L.H.: Are your parents alive.
B: My mother passed away five years ago, and my father was with my sister in Iraq, the one we lost contact with.
L.H.: What makes you laugh?
B: Here in Jordan? . . . There are some nice things here in Jordan. We used to go to church. Praying was some source of pleasure. I used to have terrible depression and although I have two sisters near by, I used to stay in my house until four months ago. I used to go from my house to work, and back from my work back to my house. It was a fixed routine. I only used to talk to my sisters by phone, although they are living near by. I was one of the first of the people who were accepted by UNHCR. Many people were accepted after me, and now they are resettled outside. That adds a lot to my depression.
L.H.: Is there something else you would like the west to be aware that we haven’t asked you?
B: No. Is it likely that the American media didn’t show the American people about what is going on in Iraq?
L.H.: I think that the media has not shown much about Iraqi refugees. A lot of people in the West are not aware of what a big problem the refugees are suffering right now.
B: An American journalist who was of Iraqi roots, she used to work for Iraqi Broadcast Corporation, and she is now an American journalist. CARATAS brought her here and did an interview with me. There is another American journal called Mother Jones six months ago.
L.H.: Did you see the final published article?
B: No, they promised to bring me the article but they haven’t. They also promised not to publish a picture of my face.
L.H.: Why don’t you want your face published?
B: It is a social traditional. I don’t want to offend my husband’s family—they don’t like to show a woman in public. And I’m concerned that my husband’s mother will think I am using his death to show up in magazines.
Wednesday, October 24, 2007
interview with S.j.
Interview with S.J. (Syrian-Christian Iraqi Woman Refugee) in East Amman 9/20/2007
interview by Laura Hamblin
L.H.: Tell your story.
S.J.: Our story started during the falling of Saddam’s régime. It was related to my younger sister who was married to a cousin who had Canadian citizenship; he is from Iraqi roots and he has Canadian citizenship. He quit living in Canada after marring my younger sister, when he started living and working in Iraq. And after the falling of Saddam’s régime, after the coalition forces entered Iraq, he was killed because he had foreign citizenship—he was not Iraqi. He was killed on the 14th of September 2004, while leaving his company with his friend who is Canadian. Two cars attacked them. They were unknown people. They attacked them and shot them. Both of them were killed at that time. When he was killed, he had only one small daughter—she is now nine years old. So our suffering started from that time. And the unknown people, from their gang, started following us from that time, looking for his wife and daughter. They wanted to kill them with him. So after that, he [the man killed] had a sister and a mother in Canada. My sister called her in-laws in Canada and asked them what they could do to serve them, because they were afraid. So the mother and sister-in-law in Canada contacted a journalist in Canada, who was sent to Iraq to have an interview with my sister and her small daughter. And they took my sister and niece to be safe in the Green Zone. So after my sister and her daughter were safe in the Green Zone, the gang started following me and my family asking us about where my sister was, because they wanted to kill her [my sister].
L.H.: How did they contact you?
S.J.: They usually contacted us during the morning hours. They were police people—from the Iraqi police.
L.H.: The Iraqi police were following you?
S.J.: Yes, they worked as police in the morning and as gang in the evening. So they threatened to take me and yet another sister as a substitute for my sister who was married to the Canadian. They usually came with small bombs and explosions with them and they threatened to explode the whole building containing from twelve to fifteen apartments. They threatened to explode the whole building because we were living in it. They stated to follow us wherever we went, continuously. That made my children leave from school. Two of my children stopped going to school. Two of my sons were getting their technical education, and one was in high school. They suffered and were threatened, so they left their school and sat at in the house.
L.H.: So they just stayed home.
S.J.: Yes, they just stayed home because they couldn’t continue their education. One day they attacked my house, and they attacked and hit my husband. So we had a lot of problems and troubles, even with our relatives. Many of our relatives didn’t want us in their houses because we were threatened. At the end we went to my husband’s family’s house. While we were there, my husband would go to our house to check on things and to get some things we needed. Once when he went to check on our home, they followed him and he notice that he was being followed while he was in our house, so he climbed the stairs to the roof and tried to jump to another building, and he fell and hurt his back. He underwent a disc operation, and the operation failed and now he needs another constructive disc operation.
L.H.: Is he always in pain?
S.J.: Yes, he’s always in pain. The back was affected and the pain from the nerve root radiates in the limb [down the leg]. Many times the gang tried to shoot him while he was stopped at the traffic lights in the street. Once, we were followed by a car, and the people in it tried to kill us. So we took the road to the police station, and that made the gang stop following us. From that time we started thinking of leaving Iraq, especially because my father had a bad medical situation, some sort of heart failure, so we decided to leave Iraq. My father used to live with us—he didn’t like to live with my brother. But we were unable to get him to go the hospital when he needed, because he had bad heart failure. We were unable to bring him to the hospital. And once my father noticed that we were in a real threat he asked us to leave—especially my husband and our middle son were usually followed and trying to be killed—so my father asked us to leave, and he stayed with my younger sister. At that time we didn’t have enough money to leave Iraq, and we didn’t have any time to sell anything. So we asked my sister to collect some money for us and for my other sister, just enough for us to reach Amman only. So we started to collect our belongings from our house to my husband’s family. And from there we left Iraq during the curfew hours because we didn’t want to be followed. So during the curfew hours, during one night, we left Iraq.
L.H.: What year was this?
S.J.: It was the 28th of November, 2004. We reached Amman on the 29th of November, 2004. Even after we arrived in Amman, we were so afraid of going outside and showing ourselves, because we were so afraid from all we had been through. We have some pictures of my sister’s husband, when he was killed. Talking about it is not like experiencing what we suffered. We have talked for about a half an hour—but we suffered so much during that time. It was a very, very black period for us. My sons have not been in school since they were in Iraq. And when we came here they were not allowed to go to school. Now, even thought the law has changed [and they can go to school in Amman] they find it very difficult to start again to go back after being away for so long. Only my younger son goes to school; he is now in the ninth year. I have three children and they are all here.
L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to go back to Iraq?
S.J.: No—it’s impossible. We can’t. Even if the political situation were to clear up and everything were to settle—the people are not so good people, and we would not be able to live with them again. We love our country. No one wants to live in their country as much as we do, but for us it is so difficult to go back again.
L.H.: What do you miss most about Iraq?
S.J.: I miss everything. Everything.
L.H: Do you have hope?
S.J.: Because nothing is working out for us. We have no hope now days. We just want to know what will go on.
L.H.: Is it likely that you’ll be able to get a visa and immigrate to the United States of Canada?
S.J.: It’s too difficult. We lost everything we had in Iraq so we are not well supported financially to apply for immigration. We only brought small containers of our clothes. We didn’t bring anything with us.
L.H.: Where do you see yourselves in five years?
S.J.: We have hope that UNHCR will help us. We are registered with UNHCR as refugees.
L.H: So there is a possibility you will get out?
S.J: Yes, we have hope they will help. We have no hope except this organization [UNHCR], because any traveling to another country has to be supported financially. We and our family are not supported financially. So our only hope is UNHCR. They may help us.
L.H.: How long have you been in Jordan?
S.J.: Two years and a half.
L.H.: What would have to take place in order for peace to exist in Iraq?
S.J.: It is a political question and I’m not that knowledgeable about political situations.
L.H.: What have you learned about yourself through your experiences?
S.J.: We faced many problems during that time. We didn’t expect that once Saddam’s regime would fall that these people would form into gangs and start attacking people.
L.H.: Do you have a better idea of who was against her? The people who were after her?
S.J.: We have no contact with these people. They were gangs who were supported by Iraqi police, and they used to attack Iraqi people. One of the attackers said to us, “We are working with a huge network—and I don’t even know where this network ends or to whom it belongs.” They started to employ poor people to serve these gangs, because they started to support poor people financially, so they employed many people to work with them because of bad financial situations. The attackers were so savage and bad people. Every person who will kill his neighbor, his brother, his people—he is so bad because he did these acts.
L.H.: What could the United States be doing differently to improve the situation?
S.J.: I don’t know anything about politics. Since America exists everywhere in the world, I expect America can do many things to help improve the situation—I am sure of it. But how? I don’t know; I don’t have any idea. If America would start getting rid of the extremists, who are not Iraqis and who entered Iraq after 2003, everything may settle down. I mean the Iranians—the people from Iran.
L.H.: So you do see the Iranians as a threat?
S.J.: They [Iranians] have different thoughts, different extremists thoughts; they were strange from Iraqis. These acts did not use to occur in Iraq. It’s impossible for an Iraqi to be so savage toward another Iraqi. So I think these thoughts and acts were supported from Iran.
L.H.: People from the West only know what the media tells us. What could you say to help clarify for Western people what is really happening in Iraq?
S.J.: The Iraqis have to transfer, interpret these acts and what is going on—like this interview. Every Iraqi who suffered throughout theses previous years, and if he were to get such an interview, he may transfer what he did suffer, a lot could be transferred [conveyed] to other countries.
L.H.: What advice would you give to other refugees?
S.J.: We wished to any Iraqi refugee what I wish for myself—for every Iraqi person to be resettled, to be happy to live his life well. Not to be like we are here; we have chronic anxiety because we are not resettled here. We are only looking for resettlement—to be just resettled, whether here in Jordan or outside, because it’s very difficult for us to go back to Iraq.
L.H.: Are you able to work here?
S.J.: No we are not allowed to work here; it is not allowed. Even if we were to get the UNHCR registration, one of the requirements for this registration is that we do not work. We are only accepted here as refugees. The UN will help us to be resettled outside. None of us is allowed to work here.
L.H.: How do you support yourselves?
S.J.: We are not working, so some of our sisters [in Iraq] collect and save money for us. And we are Christians, so the Jordanian churches are supporting us. The churches are doing very good work or us. Even if we need some things, if any Iraqi family leaves, they [the churches] support us by transferring the things from the traveling family to us.
L.H.: Do you have other family members still living in Iraq?
S.J.: All of my family members left Iraq. Once a family leaves Iraq, they will start threatening another sister or another brother. So some of them are living in Jordan, others in Syria, none of them is living in Iraq.
L.H.: What is your sister doing, the one whose husband was killed?
S.J.: She is now here in Jordan, and she had an interview with the Canadian Embassy because her small daughter has Canadian citizenship and a Canadian passport, and they may leave for Canada, as soon as possible, they may leave. I thank god because of this. My brother in Turkey applied with UNHCR and he was accepted, and he will leave for America within a few days, through the UNHCR of Turkey. We are the only of the family who has stayed. The one who is living in Turkey, he will leave for America in a few days. The other is resettled in Syria, and we are still here. I am Syrian but I have lived in Iraq for a long time. So my other brother has resettled back in Syria.
L.H.: How do you spend your day?
S.H.: Doing housework. I can’t talk about this. I take care of my husband because he has a lot of chronic pain. And my sons are around me twenty-four hours a day because they are not able to study.
[MR. J. shows pictures and talks] This is the one who was killed, and this is her [my wife’s] sister, his wife. She was born in 1977; she is about 30 years old. This is his photo when he was killed—his skull when he was shot. This is her father during the grieving ceremony. This is in the church praying for him. This is the skull. This is his wife. I think I did well in taking these photos as evidence.
L.H.: May I take pictures of these photos?
S.J.: Yes. [They show the pictures and identify them]
L.H.: What will you do if you get the America?
S.J.: We are only looking only for resettlement. We are not able to wish for anything because we know nothing of this strange world. We are only looking for resettlement. Whatever we will face, we will be satisfied because we suffered so much in Iraq. We only want to be away from Iraq—this is our only wish.
L: What do you anticipate for your sons in America?
S: I will be very, very assured about my sons there [in America] because no one will follow them. They may start their studies again—them may have a good future there in America. Even if they start from zero, they will start a normal, regular life—not like what they suffered in Iraq.
interview by Laura Hamblin
L.H.: Tell your story.
S.J.: Our story started during the falling of Saddam’s régime. It was related to my younger sister who was married to a cousin who had Canadian citizenship; he is from Iraqi roots and he has Canadian citizenship. He quit living in Canada after marring my younger sister, when he started living and working in Iraq. And after the falling of Saddam’s régime, after the coalition forces entered Iraq, he was killed because he had foreign citizenship—he was not Iraqi. He was killed on the 14th of September 2004, while leaving his company with his friend who is Canadian. Two cars attacked them. They were unknown people. They attacked them and shot them. Both of them were killed at that time. When he was killed, he had only one small daughter—she is now nine years old. So our suffering started from that time. And the unknown people, from their gang, started following us from that time, looking for his wife and daughter. They wanted to kill them with him. So after that, he [the man killed] had a sister and a mother in Canada. My sister called her in-laws in Canada and asked them what they could do to serve them, because they were afraid. So the mother and sister-in-law in Canada contacted a journalist in Canada, who was sent to Iraq to have an interview with my sister and her small daughter. And they took my sister and niece to be safe in the Green Zone. So after my sister and her daughter were safe in the Green Zone, the gang started following me and my family asking us about where my sister was, because they wanted to kill her [my sister].
L.H.: How did they contact you?
S.J.: They usually contacted us during the morning hours. They were police people—from the Iraqi police.
L.H.: The Iraqi police were following you?
S.J.: Yes, they worked as police in the morning and as gang in the evening. So they threatened to take me and yet another sister as a substitute for my sister who was married to the Canadian. They usually came with small bombs and explosions with them and they threatened to explode the whole building containing from twelve to fifteen apartments. They threatened to explode the whole building because we were living in it. They stated to follow us wherever we went, continuously. That made my children leave from school. Two of my children stopped going to school. Two of my sons were getting their technical education, and one was in high school. They suffered and were threatened, so they left their school and sat at in the house.
L.H.: So they just stayed home.
S.J.: Yes, they just stayed home because they couldn’t continue their education. One day they attacked my house, and they attacked and hit my husband. So we had a lot of problems and troubles, even with our relatives. Many of our relatives didn’t want us in their houses because we were threatened. At the end we went to my husband’s family’s house. While we were there, my husband would go to our house to check on things and to get some things we needed. Once when he went to check on our home, they followed him and he notice that he was being followed while he was in our house, so he climbed the stairs to the roof and tried to jump to another building, and he fell and hurt his back. He underwent a disc operation, and the operation failed and now he needs another constructive disc operation.
L.H.: Is he always in pain?
S.J.: Yes, he’s always in pain. The back was affected and the pain from the nerve root radiates in the limb [down the leg]. Many times the gang tried to shoot him while he was stopped at the traffic lights in the street. Once, we were followed by a car, and the people in it tried to kill us. So we took the road to the police station, and that made the gang stop following us. From that time we started thinking of leaving Iraq, especially because my father had a bad medical situation, some sort of heart failure, so we decided to leave Iraq. My father used to live with us—he didn’t like to live with my brother. But we were unable to get him to go the hospital when he needed, because he had bad heart failure. We were unable to bring him to the hospital. And once my father noticed that we were in a real threat he asked us to leave—especially my husband and our middle son were usually followed and trying to be killed—so my father asked us to leave, and he stayed with my younger sister. At that time we didn’t have enough money to leave Iraq, and we didn’t have any time to sell anything. So we asked my sister to collect some money for us and for my other sister, just enough for us to reach Amman only. So we started to collect our belongings from our house to my husband’s family. And from there we left Iraq during the curfew hours because we didn’t want to be followed. So during the curfew hours, during one night, we left Iraq.
L.H.: What year was this?
S.J.: It was the 28th of November, 2004. We reached Amman on the 29th of November, 2004. Even after we arrived in Amman, we were so afraid of going outside and showing ourselves, because we were so afraid from all we had been through. We have some pictures of my sister’s husband, when he was killed. Talking about it is not like experiencing what we suffered. We have talked for about a half an hour—but we suffered so much during that time. It was a very, very black period for us. My sons have not been in school since they were in Iraq. And when we came here they were not allowed to go to school. Now, even thought the law has changed [and they can go to school in Amman] they find it very difficult to start again to go back after being away for so long. Only my younger son goes to school; he is now in the ninth year. I have three children and they are all here.
L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to go back to Iraq?
S.J.: No—it’s impossible. We can’t. Even if the political situation were to clear up and everything were to settle—the people are not so good people, and we would not be able to live with them again. We love our country. No one wants to live in their country as much as we do, but for us it is so difficult to go back again.
L.H.: What do you miss most about Iraq?
S.J.: I miss everything. Everything.
L.H: Do you have hope?
S.J.: Because nothing is working out for us. We have no hope now days. We just want to know what will go on.
L.H.: Is it likely that you’ll be able to get a visa and immigrate to the United States of Canada?
S.J.: It’s too difficult. We lost everything we had in Iraq so we are not well supported financially to apply for immigration. We only brought small containers of our clothes. We didn’t bring anything with us.
L.H.: Where do you see yourselves in five years?
S.J.: We have hope that UNHCR will help us. We are registered with UNHCR as refugees.
L.H: So there is a possibility you will get out?
S.J: Yes, we have hope they will help. We have no hope except this organization [UNHCR], because any traveling to another country has to be supported financially. We and our family are not supported financially. So our only hope is UNHCR. They may help us.
L.H.: How long have you been in Jordan?
S.J.: Two years and a half.
L.H.: What would have to take place in order for peace to exist in Iraq?
S.J.: It is a political question and I’m not that knowledgeable about political situations.
L.H.: What have you learned about yourself through your experiences?
S.J.: We faced many problems during that time. We didn’t expect that once Saddam’s regime would fall that these people would form into gangs and start attacking people.
L.H.: Do you have a better idea of who was against her? The people who were after her?
S.J.: We have no contact with these people. They were gangs who were supported by Iraqi police, and they used to attack Iraqi people. One of the attackers said to us, “We are working with a huge network—and I don’t even know where this network ends or to whom it belongs.” They started to employ poor people to serve these gangs, because they started to support poor people financially, so they employed many people to work with them because of bad financial situations. The attackers were so savage and bad people. Every person who will kill his neighbor, his brother, his people—he is so bad because he did these acts.
L.H.: What could the United States be doing differently to improve the situation?
S.J.: I don’t know anything about politics. Since America exists everywhere in the world, I expect America can do many things to help improve the situation—I am sure of it. But how? I don’t know; I don’t have any idea. If America would start getting rid of the extremists, who are not Iraqis and who entered Iraq after 2003, everything may settle down. I mean the Iranians—the people from Iran.
L.H.: So you do see the Iranians as a threat?
S.J.: They [Iranians] have different thoughts, different extremists thoughts; they were strange from Iraqis. These acts did not use to occur in Iraq. It’s impossible for an Iraqi to be so savage toward another Iraqi. So I think these thoughts and acts were supported from Iran.
L.H.: People from the West only know what the media tells us. What could you say to help clarify for Western people what is really happening in Iraq?
S.J.: The Iraqis have to transfer, interpret these acts and what is going on—like this interview. Every Iraqi who suffered throughout theses previous years, and if he were to get such an interview, he may transfer what he did suffer, a lot could be transferred [conveyed] to other countries.
L.H.: What advice would you give to other refugees?
S.J.: We wished to any Iraqi refugee what I wish for myself—for every Iraqi person to be resettled, to be happy to live his life well. Not to be like we are here; we have chronic anxiety because we are not resettled here. We are only looking for resettlement—to be just resettled, whether here in Jordan or outside, because it’s very difficult for us to go back to Iraq.
L.H.: Are you able to work here?
S.J.: No we are not allowed to work here; it is not allowed. Even if we were to get the UNHCR registration, one of the requirements for this registration is that we do not work. We are only accepted here as refugees. The UN will help us to be resettled outside. None of us is allowed to work here.
L.H.: How do you support yourselves?
S.J.: We are not working, so some of our sisters [in Iraq] collect and save money for us. And we are Christians, so the Jordanian churches are supporting us. The churches are doing very good work or us. Even if we need some things, if any Iraqi family leaves, they [the churches] support us by transferring the things from the traveling family to us.
L.H.: Do you have other family members still living in Iraq?
S.J.: All of my family members left Iraq. Once a family leaves Iraq, they will start threatening another sister or another brother. So some of them are living in Jordan, others in Syria, none of them is living in Iraq.
L.H.: What is your sister doing, the one whose husband was killed?
S.J.: She is now here in Jordan, and she had an interview with the Canadian Embassy because her small daughter has Canadian citizenship and a Canadian passport, and they may leave for Canada, as soon as possible, they may leave. I thank god because of this. My brother in Turkey applied with UNHCR and he was accepted, and he will leave for America within a few days, through the UNHCR of Turkey. We are the only of the family who has stayed. The one who is living in Turkey, he will leave for America in a few days. The other is resettled in Syria, and we are still here. I am Syrian but I have lived in Iraq for a long time. So my other brother has resettled back in Syria.
L.H.: How do you spend your day?
S.H.: Doing housework. I can’t talk about this. I take care of my husband because he has a lot of chronic pain. And my sons are around me twenty-four hours a day because they are not able to study.
[MR. J. shows pictures and talks] This is the one who was killed, and this is her [my wife’s] sister, his wife. She was born in 1977; she is about 30 years old. This is his photo when he was killed—his skull when he was shot. This is her father during the grieving ceremony. This is in the church praying for him. This is the skull. This is his wife. I think I did well in taking these photos as evidence.
L.H.: May I take pictures of these photos?
S.J.: Yes. [They show the pictures and identify them]
L.H.: What will you do if you get the America?
S.J.: We are only looking only for resettlement. We are not able to wish for anything because we know nothing of this strange world. We are only looking for resettlement. Whatever we will face, we will be satisfied because we suffered so much in Iraq. We only want to be away from Iraq—this is our only wish.
L: What do you anticipate for your sons in America?
S: I will be very, very assured about my sons there [in America] because no one will follow them. They may start their studies again—them may have a good future there in America. Even if they start from zero, they will start a normal, regular life—not like what they suffered in Iraq.
Monday, October 15, 2007
interview with N.
This is an interview with a refugee who has been in Amman for several years without successfully being resettled to a third country. She lives alone with five children, one of whom was recently married. The new couple also lives with N.
Interview with N. (Sept 10, 2007 east side, Amman Jordan)
Interview by Laura Hamblin
H: Could you tell me your names and spell them.
N: My name is Z. I’m eight years old.
My name is F. and I’m 12 years old.
My name is N. and I’m 46 years old.
H: Tell me your story
N: We came to Jordan, year 2001 because of Saddam’s regime. My husband was against the war. They sentenced him to be in prison. And they too all our money. And my husband was sent to jail. And then he ran away from town. And they kept on following him for a while. And then after he left jail, he decided that we should leave the country. We came to Amman.
H: Were they after your husband because of his political views?
N: He was a man of peace. He was against war; he never liked war. He wasn’t a political person. He was an agricultural engineer.
H: Where is he now?
N: My husband is in Iraq now.
H: Do you have contact with him?
N: Circumstances are very difficult and I’m not in contact with him very recently.
H: Is he able to come here?
N: No, he was sent to exile. He cannot come to Jordan.
H: How long has it been since you’ve seen him?
N: Since March 2005. That was when I last saw my husband.
H: Is that when you last saw your father?
N: Yes, it was the last time we saw him.
H: Do you miss him?
N: Yes we do.
H: I’m sorry for your loss. Tell me about what life was like in Iraq.
N: Our life in Iraq wasn’t easy, being Shiites in Saddam’s regime. He used to treat us in a bad way. The big Iraq was our big prison.
H: How did you get out of Iraq?
N: My husband was in prison. And he wasn’t allowed to leave the country and to travel. Then we saw one of Saddam’s people in the army, and we gave someone money, and he issued passports for us, and that was how we left.
H: What is your life like here?
N: It’s very, very difficult.
H: Tell me how?
N: When we first came to Jordan, we were like visitors to this country, and we’re supposed to respect the rules and regulations of the country. And we’re not allowed to work, and that’s something very difficult. My first shock was that in Jordan I had to make my children go to work in order for us to live. And my eldest son, I have to get him out of school so that my husband would stay at home with us, and that police would not capture my husband.
H: What work did your children do?
N: They worked in this factory—a shoemaking factory. And since my sons started working in the factory, they haven’t been able to catch up with school very well. And we suffered a lot with schooling in Jordan. It wasn’t allowed for Iraqis to send their children to school.
H: Here, in Jordan?
N: um hum [yes]
H: Now, didn’t that law just change?
N: Yes this year the law changed, and Iraqis can send their children back to school.
H: Are your children now going to school?
N: Yes, my children now go to school.
H: How do you feel about that?
N: We’re happy that we go to school.
H: How do you fill your day?
N: I wake up in the morning. Usually, well I was an active member in Care International. This is a volunteer thing; this is not something I am paid for. We gather together and we see what Iraqis need, and their issues. We discuss their cases. We try to speak with UNHCR representatives and staff about their cases. I was also an active member in mesan that was a law group for human rights. I tried my best to fill my time with going to meetings and meeting Iraqi women and trying to set our issues on the table and discuss our situation. During the rest of the day I take care of my children and take care of my house.
H: Where do you see yourself in five years?
N: Five years from now, if I stay in this country, I will die. Let’s say that this country is really safe, but there is no life. Now I am puzzled and confused where I am supposed to get income in order for me to feed my children, because I just made them stop working. Now I have hypertension because of my stressful situation, because I’m thinking all the time and I’m stressed. I don’t know where the sickness comes from. I am just getting sick and sick with every passing day.
H: Do you have hope for the future?
N: I am a believer. I am a woman who believes in God, and if I didn’t have hope in God I would have died very long ago. Even my children—I taught them how to live. And God is good, gracious. Tomorrow should be better than today. God will see your patience, and God will know that you are righteous people. Then God would give you a better future at the end. This is what I tell my children, and I live with hope. That’s the only thing that motivates me toward living for the future.
H: What would have to change in Iraq for you to be able to return?
N: Iraq as a country needs a just government, and a very strong government. That’s the only reason that would allow us to go back to Iraq and make it a safe place for us.
H: How can that happen?
N: I don’t know. This is something that the politicians have to deal with. It’s their job to find. . . . I don’t know.
H: What would have to be in place for peace to exist in the Middle East?
N: First of all they should destroy all means of terrorism and terrorists. Terrorism is supposed to end. We are all human beings. We have only one God. We don’t have two Gods. We are all humans. We should be forgiving to one another. We should be clean, innocent people. We should stand with one another in one hand. Excluding no ethnicity, no religion, no . . . That’s the world our children. . . . How are we going to raise our children? How are we going to build a future and build communities? And this starts; it all starts with people who have authority. We are helpless hopeless people.
H: What could the United States be doing differently to help make the situation better?
N: It [The United States] is a strong nation, a strong country. And no one could have beaten Saddam, but they did. They did beat Saddam and his régime. I don’t know. They have the power; they have the authority. They have . . . they have the strength. In order for them to put law in the country . . . I don’t know what they could possibly be doing.
H: Were you kidnapped?
N: No, but I was hit by Saddam’s followers, Saddam’s people. I was beaten by them.
H: Were you hurt physically because of the beating?
N: Yes, I lost an eye. I came to Jordan, and here I got this artificial, glass eye.
H: It still cries, I noticed.
N: Even my right eye I cannot see with it properly because it is weak. We were happy that Saddam’s regime ended and he was beaten. And we thought that we would be able to go back to our country. But that didn’t happen. And Saddam went, so after Saddam left, sectarian beliefs, they came up . . . then kidnappings, terrorism, violence. We only had one enemy, and that was Saddam. We saw this enemy. We knew the enemy. And it was only one person. It was obvious for us. He was in front of us. Everything was clear. Now we’re lost. We don’t know who our enemy is. It is chaos.
H: Why is there such chaos?
N: Because it’s a lawless country. There is no good government. Of those people who are governing right now—they know nothing about politics.
H: Do you miss Iraq?
N: Of course. I do. I miss it. Every day I cry for Iraq and every day I watch Iraqi news.
H: What do you miss most?
N: My family, my parents, my place—my being. Iraq is my country. In Iraq I feel my self worth, my dignity. Here, I’m a stranger.
H: Do you think that you will be able to get asylum in another country with your family?
N: This is what I’m here for. This is what I’m trying to do.
H: Which country are you trying to get to, which do you hope for?
N: Well, I did apply for resettlement in general. But I was [appointed] to resettle to the United States.
H: You mean, that’s where you’ve been assigned to resettle at some date?
N: Yes, assigned. . . . Not for my sake . . .I’m not doing that for my sake. I’m doing it for the sake of my children. I want them to live; I want them to live so they will be safe. I want them to study. When they were young one would say, “I want to become an engineer,” and the other would say, “I want to become a doctor,” and everything, but now they have no ambition. I try to talk to my kids, and maybe sometimes try to motivate them, but they even start telling me that we might stay here for another year or two, we have been here already, for long enough. For example, my daughter she finished secondary school, and she wants to go to university. But she cannot because I cannot afford it.
H: It’s my sense that a lot of people [in the West] aren’t aware of the refugee situation here. We don’t hear about it much in the news.
N: Our situation, the refugee situation in the region is very, very difficult. It is horrible. We’re in a country where you are a stranger, you have to pay rent, you have to pay for food, for electricity, for water. Your children, they have many, many needs that you have to provide. And you have nothing. I can’t tell a small child that “Today, I’m sorry that we don’t have food for today.” Or when the tenant [landlord] would knock your door to asking for rent, you cannot just tell them, “I’m sorry, I don’t have money.” It wouldn’t wait. The Jordanian government doesn’t allow Iraqi’s to work in the country, unless they have a work permit and residency. To obtain a work permit and residency would cost people a lot of money. Especially when some people could just get them by just depositing a lot of money in the bank.
H: Is there any special message that you’d like to give people in the West about your situation?
N: I’m one of hundreds and hundreds of Iraqi women here in the region just pleading the western countries whether Europe or Sates, to facilitate the resettlement of refugees in order for them to leave the region. When you raise children in such circumstances and such difficult atmosphere, then your children will not be healthy in the future, and then they would grow up and, they would have the sense of revenge. And you just deprive children of everything, and you then want them to be good, and well, and healthy, and stable, and you want them to be peaceful, and honest, and work and things, and you them want the to become good people in the future—that’s very difficult. So if our children go to your country, then for example, as we hear education is free in the west, so at least our children would get the chance to enroll in schools, and college and universities and that would be for their good. I ask that the west would look at our children, and that they would try to think of our children. Our age is almost over; our lives are almost over. But our children are what matters to us.
H: How do you afford living here, how do you afford the rent here?
N: My children, as I told you, they used to work. I saw that the future of my children would be under-stake, so my husband then was forced to go out and work himself. I made my children quit working and I sent them to schools. My husband started working in construction. When my husband was sent back to Iraq, I started working sewing clothes, and I started doing things for neighbors. When I did the operation for my eye, and the doctor told me not to stress my healthy eye, I went to UNHCR and I explained my situation to them. And they started giving me a salary—which is 120 JDs [approximately $168.00] per month for the whole family—for everything. Although it was never enough, but I used to say, “That’s good enough to pay the rent and electricity and the water.” And there is this organization, because we’re close to Ramadan, and that’s why we could get a bit of stores [from the charity]. And there is this person in the NGO; she also helps me with the food supply because I have been known to them. And New Years and other holidays, she would give me food supplies. We’re surviving, but it’s very difficult, very difficult. . . .
We hear, for example that one country donated one million, one billion for Iraqis in the region, and then we become excited, and we say, yes—we are going to have some of it. We’re happy that somehow we’re going to be ok—we’re going to have some sort of financial or food supply, or whatever form of aid or help. But then at the end it gets cut off by many people and organizations on the way, and whatever is left for Iraqis really to make use of or to get is something very minimal like 10% of whatever was donated from the countries.
I would like to clarify another point also, when any organization would decide to take the chance to help Iraqis, when an organization would open doors to help Iraqis and to better their circumstances, for the organization it’s not enough an Iraqi to go and say that I am in need, I don’t have food supply, I don’t have financial assistance, etc.—all that is not enough for the organization. The organization would decide on going to field visits, visiting the family at home, seeing their circumstances and everything that’s related to their living. And that’s very depressing, humiliating, and stressful for the whole family—especially for the kids. And it’s very humiliating for the parents as well. It’s very difficult for us, for people to come see us at home, and see how we live, and how we’re suffering and everything.
H: I hope I’m not making that worse.
N: I know that you’re not here to hurt me or to humiliate me. I know that you’re here because you have a certain message that you want to convey to others for the benefit of the Iraqi refugee population. And that’s why I’m talking very frankly on behalf of all Iraqis—with no exclusions. When you decide to help someone, you’re not supposed to make their children feel that they’re getting support [charity]. For example, a case worker, or a field worker from an organization—a charity humanitarian would come and visit you and pay you a field visit at home, and they would see that you have a small TV or a tiny satellite, and then they would tell you –you don’t need this. This is more than enough for you actually. This is luxury. And you, as an Iraqi person, as a refugee, you’re not supposed to have this, like mobiles [phones]. In Iraq we used to own our house, our land. We used to have god accommodation. And we were not people who had this bad circumstance. They call us unworthy of owning such small things that would better our lives like TVs and mobiles. There is a very good point here—that Iraqi families, for example this [my] family they have been here for seven years, and Iraqi families would not buy things or bran new things here. When ever a family through the seven or five or four years here, whenever they travel and leave the country, every family would give something to the family who came just afterwards, and so on. So that’s why they have a couple of chairs at home, a couple of [pieces of] furniture, something like that, it’s all because families keep on giving [to] each other. My children are tired and I’m tired, and that’s why I made the decision that it’s only a month from now—and it’s either I leave and get resettled to a third country, or I go back to Iraq. My children tell me, “Why do you fear? Why do you fear? It’s death Mom, and we’re going to die, so let’s die in dignity. And let’s not stay here and die in humiliation. So let’s go back to Iraq.” And if God wills, if God wills, and I have hope in God, and I trust God, I believe in him for the sake of my children, and I hope that I will not be forced to take my children back to Iraq where it’s like hell. And I just pray that I’ll be able to bring them and go and be resettle somewhere else.
I used to gather my children around me, trying to persuade them, to pray and have good contact with their god, and not do bad things. Because I only have my children, if I lose them I will have nothing. I have no country, I have no land, no husband, no money, no country for resettlement. The only thing I have is my children. So I’m trying my best not to lose them. I hope that they will continue to do the best things with their lives, and not do anything wrong . . . to be good to each other and love each other as a daughter loves, as brothers and sisters.
If this is a test from our lord, we have to do very well for this test, so we may be very successful. God wants to see if we will continue to succeed or to fall in sin. That’s why we are trying to continue doing the right things, to avoiding falling in any sense.
H: You’re very brave and strong.
N: I have to be brave and strong because if I’m not like this I may lose my children. I have the role of both a mother and a father, and we are here in a strange country, so if any of my daughters commit any sin, they will say “This Iraqi person did it. They will not say this daughter did it or this girl did it, they will say this Iraqi girl. So we as Iraqis have a well-known proverb that says, “Everyone in a strange country has to be very well behaved.” That why we are trying to reflect our original traditions, to be very good in front of strangers. This is mandatory for us. Wherever we might go, I have to teach my children to respect the country we will live in and respect it’s people. And our religion, Islam, is something, is something very good calling people to be good to each other. It will be a big responsibility upon me if we will be resettled outside, how to teach my children to carry their religion and social concept. Especially if they have contact with a different group people with different habits, different traditions. So it will be difficult, but I hope I will succeed. If everything goes well, and we will be resettled and after many years the situation may improve, so that we can go back to Iraq, so the children may not be influenced by the social, and any bad habits from the other societies, they may carry their own traditions and habits so that they and will succeed and be so happy to go back to their own country. I will be so happy if we will be resettled, but at the same time I’m so afraid for my children—they accept any of the bad habits of those certain societies outside. So, I’ll be very anxious about them. I hope they will keep their habits, the way I raised them so as to be kind to each other and the other people they come in contact with. I hope my efforts in raising my children will not be lost, that I will see my children be successful in the society they go to. . . .
Interview with N. (Sept 10, 2007 east side, Amman Jordan)
Interview by Laura Hamblin
H: Could you tell me your names and spell them.
N: My name is Z. I’m eight years old.
My name is F. and I’m 12 years old.
My name is N. and I’m 46 years old.
H: Tell me your story
N: We came to Jordan, year 2001 because of Saddam’s regime. My husband was against the war. They sentenced him to be in prison. And they too all our money. And my husband was sent to jail. And then he ran away from town. And they kept on following him for a while. And then after he left jail, he decided that we should leave the country. We came to Amman.
H: Were they after your husband because of his political views?
N: He was a man of peace. He was against war; he never liked war. He wasn’t a political person. He was an agricultural engineer.
H: Where is he now?
N: My husband is in Iraq now.
H: Do you have contact with him?
N: Circumstances are very difficult and I’m not in contact with him very recently.
H: Is he able to come here?
N: No, he was sent to exile. He cannot come to Jordan.
H: How long has it been since you’ve seen him?
N: Since March 2005. That was when I last saw my husband.
H: Is that when you last saw your father?
N: Yes, it was the last time we saw him.
H: Do you miss him?
N: Yes we do.
H: I’m sorry for your loss. Tell me about what life was like in Iraq.
N: Our life in Iraq wasn’t easy, being Shiites in Saddam’s regime. He used to treat us in a bad way. The big Iraq was our big prison.
H: How did you get out of Iraq?
N: My husband was in prison. And he wasn’t allowed to leave the country and to travel. Then we saw one of Saddam’s people in the army, and we gave someone money, and he issued passports for us, and that was how we left.
H: What is your life like here?
N: It’s very, very difficult.
H: Tell me how?
N: When we first came to Jordan, we were like visitors to this country, and we’re supposed to respect the rules and regulations of the country. And we’re not allowed to work, and that’s something very difficult. My first shock was that in Jordan I had to make my children go to work in order for us to live. And my eldest son, I have to get him out of school so that my husband would stay at home with us, and that police would not capture my husband.
H: What work did your children do?
N: They worked in this factory—a shoemaking factory. And since my sons started working in the factory, they haven’t been able to catch up with school very well. And we suffered a lot with schooling in Jordan. It wasn’t allowed for Iraqis to send their children to school.
H: Here, in Jordan?
N: um hum [yes]
H: Now, didn’t that law just change?
N: Yes this year the law changed, and Iraqis can send their children back to school.
H: Are your children now going to school?
N: Yes, my children now go to school.
H: How do you feel about that?
N: We’re happy that we go to school.
H: How do you fill your day?
N: I wake up in the morning. Usually, well I was an active member in Care International. This is a volunteer thing; this is not something I am paid for. We gather together and we see what Iraqis need, and their issues. We discuss their cases. We try to speak with UNHCR representatives and staff about their cases. I was also an active member in mesan that was a law group for human rights. I tried my best to fill my time with going to meetings and meeting Iraqi women and trying to set our issues on the table and discuss our situation. During the rest of the day I take care of my children and take care of my house.
H: Where do you see yourself in five years?
N: Five years from now, if I stay in this country, I will die. Let’s say that this country is really safe, but there is no life. Now I am puzzled and confused where I am supposed to get income in order for me to feed my children, because I just made them stop working. Now I have hypertension because of my stressful situation, because I’m thinking all the time and I’m stressed. I don’t know where the sickness comes from. I am just getting sick and sick with every passing day.
H: Do you have hope for the future?
N: I am a believer. I am a woman who believes in God, and if I didn’t have hope in God I would have died very long ago. Even my children—I taught them how to live. And God is good, gracious. Tomorrow should be better than today. God will see your patience, and God will know that you are righteous people. Then God would give you a better future at the end. This is what I tell my children, and I live with hope. That’s the only thing that motivates me toward living for the future.
H: What would have to change in Iraq for you to be able to return?
N: Iraq as a country needs a just government, and a very strong government. That’s the only reason that would allow us to go back to Iraq and make it a safe place for us.
H: How can that happen?
N: I don’t know. This is something that the politicians have to deal with. It’s their job to find. . . . I don’t know.
H: What would have to be in place for peace to exist in the Middle East?
N: First of all they should destroy all means of terrorism and terrorists. Terrorism is supposed to end. We are all human beings. We have only one God. We don’t have two Gods. We are all humans. We should be forgiving to one another. We should be clean, innocent people. We should stand with one another in one hand. Excluding no ethnicity, no religion, no . . . That’s the world our children. . . . How are we going to raise our children? How are we going to build a future and build communities? And this starts; it all starts with people who have authority. We are helpless hopeless people.
H: What could the United States be doing differently to help make the situation better?
N: It [The United States] is a strong nation, a strong country. And no one could have beaten Saddam, but they did. They did beat Saddam and his régime. I don’t know. They have the power; they have the authority. They have . . . they have the strength. In order for them to put law in the country . . . I don’t know what they could possibly be doing.
H: Were you kidnapped?
N: No, but I was hit by Saddam’s followers, Saddam’s people. I was beaten by them.
H: Were you hurt physically because of the beating?
N: Yes, I lost an eye. I came to Jordan, and here I got this artificial, glass eye.
H: It still cries, I noticed.
N: Even my right eye I cannot see with it properly because it is weak. We were happy that Saddam’s regime ended and he was beaten. And we thought that we would be able to go back to our country. But that didn’t happen. And Saddam went, so after Saddam left, sectarian beliefs, they came up . . . then kidnappings, terrorism, violence. We only had one enemy, and that was Saddam. We saw this enemy. We knew the enemy. And it was only one person. It was obvious for us. He was in front of us. Everything was clear. Now we’re lost. We don’t know who our enemy is. It is chaos.
H: Why is there such chaos?
N: Because it’s a lawless country. There is no good government. Of those people who are governing right now—they know nothing about politics.
H: Do you miss Iraq?
N: Of course. I do. I miss it. Every day I cry for Iraq and every day I watch Iraqi news.
H: What do you miss most?
N: My family, my parents, my place—my being. Iraq is my country. In Iraq I feel my self worth, my dignity. Here, I’m a stranger.
H: Do you think that you will be able to get asylum in another country with your family?
N: This is what I’m here for. This is what I’m trying to do.
H: Which country are you trying to get to, which do you hope for?
N: Well, I did apply for resettlement in general. But I was [appointed] to resettle to the United States.
H: You mean, that’s where you’ve been assigned to resettle at some date?
N: Yes, assigned. . . . Not for my sake . . .I’m not doing that for my sake. I’m doing it for the sake of my children. I want them to live; I want them to live so they will be safe. I want them to study. When they were young one would say, “I want to become an engineer,” and the other would say, “I want to become a doctor,” and everything, but now they have no ambition. I try to talk to my kids, and maybe sometimes try to motivate them, but they even start telling me that we might stay here for another year or two, we have been here already, for long enough. For example, my daughter she finished secondary school, and she wants to go to university. But she cannot because I cannot afford it.
H: It’s my sense that a lot of people [in the West] aren’t aware of the refugee situation here. We don’t hear about it much in the news.
N: Our situation, the refugee situation in the region is very, very difficult. It is horrible. We’re in a country where you are a stranger, you have to pay rent, you have to pay for food, for electricity, for water. Your children, they have many, many needs that you have to provide. And you have nothing. I can’t tell a small child that “Today, I’m sorry that we don’t have food for today.” Or when the tenant [landlord] would knock your door to asking for rent, you cannot just tell them, “I’m sorry, I don’t have money.” It wouldn’t wait. The Jordanian government doesn’t allow Iraqi’s to work in the country, unless they have a work permit and residency. To obtain a work permit and residency would cost people a lot of money. Especially when some people could just get them by just depositing a lot of money in the bank.
H: Is there any special message that you’d like to give people in the West about your situation?
N: I’m one of hundreds and hundreds of Iraqi women here in the region just pleading the western countries whether Europe or Sates, to facilitate the resettlement of refugees in order for them to leave the region. When you raise children in such circumstances and such difficult atmosphere, then your children will not be healthy in the future, and then they would grow up and, they would have the sense of revenge. And you just deprive children of everything, and you then want them to be good, and well, and healthy, and stable, and you want them to be peaceful, and honest, and work and things, and you them want the to become good people in the future—that’s very difficult. So if our children go to your country, then for example, as we hear education is free in the west, so at least our children would get the chance to enroll in schools, and college and universities and that would be for their good. I ask that the west would look at our children, and that they would try to think of our children. Our age is almost over; our lives are almost over. But our children are what matters to us.
H: How do you afford living here, how do you afford the rent here?
N: My children, as I told you, they used to work. I saw that the future of my children would be under-stake, so my husband then was forced to go out and work himself. I made my children quit working and I sent them to schools. My husband started working in construction. When my husband was sent back to Iraq, I started working sewing clothes, and I started doing things for neighbors. When I did the operation for my eye, and the doctor told me not to stress my healthy eye, I went to UNHCR and I explained my situation to them. And they started giving me a salary—which is 120 JDs [approximately $168.00] per month for the whole family—for everything. Although it was never enough, but I used to say, “That’s good enough to pay the rent and electricity and the water.” And there is this organization, because we’re close to Ramadan, and that’s why we could get a bit of stores [from the charity]. And there is this person in the NGO; she also helps me with the food supply because I have been known to them. And New Years and other holidays, she would give me food supplies. We’re surviving, but it’s very difficult, very difficult. . . .
We hear, for example that one country donated one million, one billion for Iraqis in the region, and then we become excited, and we say, yes—we are going to have some of it. We’re happy that somehow we’re going to be ok—we’re going to have some sort of financial or food supply, or whatever form of aid or help. But then at the end it gets cut off by many people and organizations on the way, and whatever is left for Iraqis really to make use of or to get is something very minimal like 10% of whatever was donated from the countries.
I would like to clarify another point also, when any organization would decide to take the chance to help Iraqis, when an organization would open doors to help Iraqis and to better their circumstances, for the organization it’s not enough an Iraqi to go and say that I am in need, I don’t have food supply, I don’t have financial assistance, etc.—all that is not enough for the organization. The organization would decide on going to field visits, visiting the family at home, seeing their circumstances and everything that’s related to their living. And that’s very depressing, humiliating, and stressful for the whole family—especially for the kids. And it’s very humiliating for the parents as well. It’s very difficult for us, for people to come see us at home, and see how we live, and how we’re suffering and everything.
H: I hope I’m not making that worse.
N: I know that you’re not here to hurt me or to humiliate me. I know that you’re here because you have a certain message that you want to convey to others for the benefit of the Iraqi refugee population. And that’s why I’m talking very frankly on behalf of all Iraqis—with no exclusions. When you decide to help someone, you’re not supposed to make their children feel that they’re getting support [charity]. For example, a case worker, or a field worker from an organization—a charity humanitarian would come and visit you and pay you a field visit at home, and they would see that you have a small TV or a tiny satellite, and then they would tell you –you don’t need this. This is more than enough for you actually. This is luxury. And you, as an Iraqi person, as a refugee, you’re not supposed to have this, like mobiles [phones]. In Iraq we used to own our house, our land. We used to have god accommodation. And we were not people who had this bad circumstance. They call us unworthy of owning such small things that would better our lives like TVs and mobiles. There is a very good point here—that Iraqi families, for example this [my] family they have been here for seven years, and Iraqi families would not buy things or bran new things here. When ever a family through the seven or five or four years here, whenever they travel and leave the country, every family would give something to the family who came just afterwards, and so on. So that’s why they have a couple of chairs at home, a couple of [pieces of] furniture, something like that, it’s all because families keep on giving [to] each other. My children are tired and I’m tired, and that’s why I made the decision that it’s only a month from now—and it’s either I leave and get resettled to a third country, or I go back to Iraq. My children tell me, “Why do you fear? Why do you fear? It’s death Mom, and we’re going to die, so let’s die in dignity. And let’s not stay here and die in humiliation. So let’s go back to Iraq.” And if God wills, if God wills, and I have hope in God, and I trust God, I believe in him for the sake of my children, and I hope that I will not be forced to take my children back to Iraq where it’s like hell. And I just pray that I’ll be able to bring them and go and be resettle somewhere else.
I used to gather my children around me, trying to persuade them, to pray and have good contact with their god, and not do bad things. Because I only have my children, if I lose them I will have nothing. I have no country, I have no land, no husband, no money, no country for resettlement. The only thing I have is my children. So I’m trying my best not to lose them. I hope that they will continue to do the best things with their lives, and not do anything wrong . . . to be good to each other and love each other as a daughter loves, as brothers and sisters.
If this is a test from our lord, we have to do very well for this test, so we may be very successful. God wants to see if we will continue to succeed or to fall in sin. That’s why we are trying to continue doing the right things, to avoiding falling in any sense.
H: You’re very brave and strong.
N: I have to be brave and strong because if I’m not like this I may lose my children. I have the role of both a mother and a father, and we are here in a strange country, so if any of my daughters commit any sin, they will say “This Iraqi person did it. They will not say this daughter did it or this girl did it, they will say this Iraqi girl. So we as Iraqis have a well-known proverb that says, “Everyone in a strange country has to be very well behaved.” That why we are trying to reflect our original traditions, to be very good in front of strangers. This is mandatory for us. Wherever we might go, I have to teach my children to respect the country we will live in and respect it’s people. And our religion, Islam, is something, is something very good calling people to be good to each other. It will be a big responsibility upon me if we will be resettled outside, how to teach my children to carry their religion and social concept. Especially if they have contact with a different group people with different habits, different traditions. So it will be difficult, but I hope I will succeed. If everything goes well, and we will be resettled and after many years the situation may improve, so that we can go back to Iraq, so the children may not be influenced by the social, and any bad habits from the other societies, they may carry their own traditions and habits so that they and will succeed and be so happy to go back to their own country. I will be so happy if we will be resettled, but at the same time I’m so afraid for my children—they accept any of the bad habits of those certain societies outside. So, I’ll be very anxious about them. I hope they will keep their habits, the way I raised them so as to be kind to each other and the other people they come in contact with. I hope my efforts in raising my children will not be lost, that I will see my children be successful in the society they go to. . . .
Sunday, October 14, 2007
first interveiw (with A.A.)
I'm going to start posting the interviews. All but one of the women I've interviewed so far have asked that their identities be kept secret (in the videos I have had to agree to cover their eyes and/or distort their faces) so here I am just using initials for identification. The first one here is really the only story so far that has a happy ending, so in that way it is not a good representative. but I got this interview first, and I am going to post them in the chronology that I took them.
Interview with A.A.
(Christian Iraqi woman, worked as translator for US military)
Interviewer, Laura Hamblin 9.13.2007
H: Tell me your story, and you might begin by telling me where you’re from, what your family did. . . . However you want to begin just telling me your unique story.
A: Ok, I born in Baghdad. My grandfather born in Ramadi, which is west of Baghdad it is Anbar area. He moved to Baghdad when he was six years old then, My father went to college in Baghdad, at Baghdad University. I had my mom and four sisters. My father was a professor, an English professor, and my mom, she was a housewife. We all went to school, me and my sisters.
We are from a big tribe in Iraq, and they are very famous, and they are Muslims, Sunis.
The area my grandfather grow up, it is a very big area. And his tribe, they call it Diwaniyah, which is the biggest tribe in Iraq. I went to school; I graduated from high school, and I finish computer science in Baghdad.
H: How old are you?
A: I’m thirty-four years old.
H: And what were the circumstances that led you to leave Iraq?
A: Well, ah, when the war started in 2003, I lost my family, my mom and four sisters. They went to bring some food for us, and I stayed home because I was afraid people they would come and they could buy the house and we don’t have a place to stay. So I had then, my mom said, “I’ll go and get some food and water for them, and then I’ll be back. “ So I said, “Can I go?” and she said, “No” because I am too young, but because she’s old, she said, “I can go and you know, I’ll come back in two hours. “ My sister wants to go with her and she cannot say [no] to them, and because I’m the oldest one, I say, “It’s ok—two hours, but be careful” and she said “Ok.” And they, they never came back. The car get hit by mortar, by men [?] of Saddam. And these people, it’s a group of people, who are fighting [the] marines and they are wild. Which is at Baghdad airport. And I did not find out about them [my family] after three days. They let me go outside the house and they say, “You can go and see if it’s your family.” At that time marines, America army—I think they were Marines at first and then the army came after them—they come to my house and they ask me, they said, “Where is my family?” And they asked for my I.D. and everything, and I filled out this story. I couldn’t find them for three days, then some of the people told me where they are, and I went and I see; I just find the car, and it’s all burned. I couldn’t find anything left.
H: The bodies weren’t around?
A: They get burned, all of them inside the car, because no one saved them. Also the driver dies.
H: Were you able to burry them?
A: Well, it’s so hard for me. Because I was female by herself, and there is, you know there is nothing to see and, but I did burry them but then. But I ask, “How I burry them?” because I can’t find anything, there is just some stuff left of their body, and they say I have to burry them with the car. Yes, that’s what they said. So, they help me, some American army, they help me to get a taxi and to get everything together, and, and bury them.
H: Where was you father?
A: My father? Ah, Saddam killed him in 1993. Because he [Saddam] decide, for us to go in our country, like teachers and doctors, they don’t serve in the military. Well, one day Saddam decide to send them [professionals] in a training camp, incase he needs some people. And I think he was planning to go to his family break in [?] that’s where he was saying all the time. So, my father went for six months. For training camp, somewhere south of Baghdad, I don’t know where. After that,when he came back home he was so sick, always sick, and always complaining that he could not eat and ah. . .
H: What kind of sickness?
A: Like, ah, stomach hurts, um, he has a problem with his liver, and then he has depression, and all these things. Something happened to him—I don’t know what happened. And then he went to a doctor and the doctor says he has to go to the hospital. So, my father was dying, you know a part, a part every day. Like, evry day they come and check on him and they sat, “Oh, the kidney’s not working any more . . . then the liver’s not working any more,” and then “His stomach, he cannot eat any more.” At the end he get a heart attack, for no reason.
H: How old was he when he died?
A: He was too young. He was like, fifty-something. And my father he is, you know, he is educated. He eat well, and he knows—he exercise. Everybody was shocked because you know, he just went for six months at the camp.
H: So you don’t know any of the details about what he experienced in the camp?
A: I do. I did. I asked the doctor. And, usually doctors they won’t say anything, but because he is our family doctor, he said, “They poisoned him, with the food,” and that the things they used [the poisons]—they put it in there for everyday, so when he died at the end, nobody would even know. They die by a heart attack, but it affects the body first, like the, all the body system. Then at the end, people died, and you never know. And you, you can’t ask.
H: And you can’t prove it?
A: I can’t prove it and I can’t ask. If I said, “Hey, my father [was] poisoned in the camp,” they would kill me. I can’t—I can’t say anything. And the doctor said, “Please don’t say anything, because I’ll get in trouble, but that’s what happened. That’s it—just accept it.”
H: Do you know why they wanted him dead?
A: Well, my father died, and his friends, in the same camp. Not only him—too many. I mean, when I was thinking bout it, my mom she has like, my father has friends, and his friends, they have wives, and they are friends of my mom. So every time we hear about someone died, it’s very strange because they were in the same group, the same years and they died, like, one by one.
H: Were they all academics, were they all professors—these friends?
A: Yah, yah, they were all same school, they graduated from, same college. But my father was, you know, when he was in college, he has problems with the Ba’ath party. He wasn’t . . . he wasn’t . . . you know, he never joined it—the Ba’ath party. They, they, what happened [was], they call it the black list—which is, he will never travel, he will not have a passport, he will never get promoted, he cannot, teach, only bad places. I mean, it’s just, I think at that time, they say, “Saddam, he does not like educated people. So when people know too much—they [the Ba’ath party] just, they just fear.
H: So how long did your family live alone after your father died?
A: Ah, from 1993 to 2003.
H: So for ten years your mother was alone with the four girls?
A: Yah.
H: And then? And you’re the only one left?
A: Yes, I am the only one left.
H: Do you have cousins?
A: No, my father, he is the only son for his family. My mom’s the same. My mom’s parents, they were too old when they had my mom. So . . . My mom was Christian and my father was Muslim. They get married and their families get mad at then—both of them. So my grandfather disowned my father. And he went to the courthouse and he said, “This is it—he is not my son, and he will never get my money, and I don’t want him any more.”
H: So you don’t have a relationship with your grandparents—you didn’t?
A: You know, I remember them, when I was little. Because I was the oldest one. But usually when the one, like the old guy in the family, when he just wants someone, he go[es] to the tribe, and he said, “This one is not my son, and I don’t want him any more because he is married from a different religion.” So they make an announcement, and they say, “Ok, That is it. They do stay home”—the sheik and the tribe, he tell everyone to come for a meeting and they make a statement of all of us, like me, and my family—it’s like an honor killing statement, which means—anybody, anybody can shoot us and kill us for no reason. They will never go to jail. It’s just wrong, I mean that’s it.
H: What happened to you after your mother and sisters died?
A: Ah, I used to live in a small apartment. From , . . we have one room. We had one room—I remember it very well. And [for] the honor of people he [the landlord] think, he wants to kick me out, outside the apartment because I cannot pay him. And I say that, “I can’t go, I can’t leave. I have no one.” And he’s like, “I don’t care.” People, they steal the banks, and you know what happened in 2003, and there is no law, no police, no—nothing. And he came to my house and he say, “If you did not leave the house, the apartment, I can send people to kill you and nobody will know. We have no good government, no police, nothing. I can do whatever I can.” So I get scared, then I say, “I can’t pay you for the six month, because I was home. And there was no job any more.”
H: Did you work before?
A: I used to work, to support my mom and sisters. I worked at a trading company, as a secretary—for two years.
H; But at this point you weren’t able to work?
A: No because they killed—all the business closed, when they hear about the war. Before the war start, everybody left, and there is no more business. I had some money saved, and I spent it all because the bread get so expensive, and even the water, we used to buy the water from the other’s trucks. They fill it with water and they come to us. It was hard times. And the females by themselves, it was so scary. We used to go to the shelter in the building, every night, and we spend almost a week there. This is why my mom, she have to go get food for us, because we don’t have men. You know when you have men, it’s ok, fine to go outside and get food. But for us, it’s difficult. Then, um, I told him, I said, “I can’t pay you the rent.” And I can’t go anywhere, and I know my people—if I go there [to my people] they will kill me for no reason. Even, even I lost my family, and I don’t know them [my extended family], and I don’t know where to go, but [he] doesn’t believe me. But anyway, I remember, he said, “Ok, if anything happen—I told you so.” The he said—
H: So that’s a threat!
A: It is. Yah, and the reason he was saying that is because he was saying the country is a mess and there is no government, and no one can punish me, so I can do whatever I want. Which was right, at that time. So I ask him how [do] I pay him, and he’s like, “Just leave the furniture for me.” So I left the whole thing. I worked so hard to get it—everything—eeach part in my apartment . . . and I just left it. And I get my, I only get pictures and my clothes. I give the other stuff to the poor people in the building—my mom’s things and my sisters’. I get the pictures . . . and then I left. And ah, I get taxi and I, I don’t know where I’m going. So I was thinking . . . to go to my friend house, maybe. And I was thinking about it. But you know for us, our society is different, and if I show up, and I’m a female by myself, and I come in late, at the night, the parents, they’re not going to like the idea, or the husband . . . this, it’s just wrong, you know. So, the taxi driver was driving me around, and I was thinking I wanted to go home, at time. And it was scary and we have curfew, and you have to make sure you are not going somewhere that you get shot—
H: Dangerous.
A; Yes, dangerous, and there is too many people with guns everywhere. People from the Ba’ath party, they’re looking for people who were in the army. Like you will never know where [if] you get shot and [if] you get home. So, I was looking for, for nothing—I don’t know where to go. And I was passing from the hotel in Baghdad, and they put signs in the door saying they need someone who can speak English. And I was, not perfect in English, just good in English. So, I had only1,000 dinar [$1.00 US is approximately 1,250 dinar] that’s all I had, and I wanted to give it to the taxi driver, and he’s like, “No take it.” And I said, “No, it’s ok, you take it.” Then I give it to him, and I went to the hotel and I talked to the boss and he was, they were, ah, um—Special Forces. They, they get the hotel and you know, they live there, and they do their job every day. So I told him, “I can speak English, and I know Baghdad very well. I can help if you want.” And they said, “Ok.” And they asked me ask me about my family, and if they agreed if I can work for them or not. And said, I told them the story. They say, it’s ok, they will take care of me, and they gave me a room., by myself, and a shower, which is so nice. They brought me some stuff to wear that they got. And they paid me $5.00 a day. That’s what I get.
So we used to go outside every day, you know, I read the signs for them, and we go to the buildings, and I show them the places, and short cuts to go. Then, ah, before they left, they take me to the Green Zone, which is the, ah, military base stayed there, and ah, they asked Titan, it’s a, it was a new company who provide translators. And then they asked, my boss to Titan to give me everything. They gave me a nice letter, um of like appreciation, a letter of appreciation. Um, so my boss like me, and so it’s like, ok. Then I get hired in two weeks. After that my assignment was west, which was Falluja, Ramadi, that’s in Anbar Province, that was the post. So I went to Falluja, Camp Falluja. And I lived there for four years. Working for marines, then I went to through two wars in Falluja. And, ah, I went to Baghdad during this four years twice. Once I went to see one of my friend. I went to her house. And I think they knows about me, so after I left, going through the Green Zone, then we usually fly. We flew from Falluja to Green Zone, and then when we come back we go to through Green Zone and then we flew back to Falluja. Ah, I think they found out about me, they know where I was that weekend.
H: They who? Who is they?
A: I have no idea. Before that there is no names, no groups—just people. They know the translators who works for them. So, they killed my friend. And they left a sign on her body. She was coming back from work. And ah, the reason I go and visit her, because she gave me a loan at her house, and I pay her. They used to pay us like $400.00, if I leave, you know, if I leave for the army and I go out on convoys and go on missions and stuff. So my payment was good. So I rent[ed] a room from her—you know, I can have vacation and come back, and do shopping, stuff. She used to live with her mom, and I was helping them with money because things were so bad. After I left the Green Zone, ah, her mom, she called me—and she said, “Please don’t ever come back again, because they killed her.” And I said—“They, they what?” And she said, “They killed her. They killed my daughter. And they left a sign on her body saying, ‘That’s what happens to people who help in the American traitors Jewish.’” That’s what they said. I can’t remember exactly what’s the words.
But that’s what happened. . . . that’s it . . . I never went anywhere . . . after that. I was afraid, because people, they, they just died . . . for no reason. And I lost my best of friend, and she was kind, and very nice and she did not do anything. She has nothing to do with American. They killed her for no reason, just because I went and see her and I live with her. So I told my embassy I shouldn’t go anywhere, I should just stay in camp. So I stayed. . . . I worked with the civil force for four years. And I liked my job. It’s good to go and help people—people who need help. Ah, you know, I lived for four years, with the Marines, and ah, two years I lived in Falluja at that time, in a small building. I had my room and people taking care of me. Then ah, because I do convoys, then I go on missions for ten or eleven days, and people, they get to know me in Falluja—ah, sheiks, imams, mayors, all these people, the government . . . ah . . .
So people, they start to call me—people from Falluja—insurgents, I don’t know who they are. And ah, I told the Marines. And they said, “It’s ok, don’t worry, we will take care of it.” And I was safe, because, you know, they take care of me. And I never go anywhere. I just live on the base. And coming to the building where we used to work—it’s like a health [office]. I stayed for two years. And we help too many people, but people, they don’t appreciate what we do. And I’m female, of course they will look at me like, you know, they think about me like, in a bad way. And I used to be very sensitive about it. But . . .
H: Now when you say “they” look at you and think about you in a bad way, is this the people that you help—are they are judging you in a bad way?
A: Yah, of course, yah, every day. I hear stupid things—The men they come and ask me stupid questions: men, sheiks , imams. But I can’t tell them. I mean when I get this job . . . when you are alone, and you are female, and you have no place to go, and you accept a job. I think I was so lucky at that night to find a place where I will be comfortable at that night. Because you know how is it—it’s war, and the country’s—you know, it’s a mess. You can’t do anything. When I get this job . . . I choose it because I have no option. Like, I don’t have another choice. But then I liked it, because I know we’re helping people, and, and it’s safe. I mean, for Americans, that’s how I think about it. They expect more . . . they, they, ah, they take care of us. I always have good friends. And I make good friends.
H: So, when you were helping people, what type of assistance, what type help did you give them?
A: I do translate, you now. And ah, we used to do the visas for the people. They needed some work. Like for Americans, when they went to the cities, they destroy some houses and some places. So they start to pay them, pay people for, you know . . . the damage . . . So I was trying to help them, to get some money, and I explain to them the procedure, to the lawyer who paid. I mean we worked so hard, and they don’t appreciate it—which is fine with me—I just, I don’t care. I’m just, I’m doing my job. And I was fair with them . . . but you know how they are. Then when I get threatened too many times—I get threatened like, seven times—
H: Threatened in what way?
A: Ah, cell phones . . .
H: No, but, what were they . . . were they threatening to take your life?
A: Yah, they were going to. But they um, said in papers, like sometimes they sent papers, or they sent message, or they call me, they talk to me. That’s what they said, “If you did not quit this job, we will we will cut you head . . .” and ah . . . some bad words. So . . . saying they were good people, and I’m doing this because I’m bad, I’m a whore and all these things. . . . They have no idea. If I quit my job, I can’t go anywhere.
Then things [were] getting so bad after that. Because when you stay for a long time, and people see you every day—we used to see people every day, but not Friday because it’s a holiday—and, it’s just wrong. I mean, you shouldn’t stay in the same place. You should travel. Like I have my friends, they also work as translators, females, and they make some money and then they travel. They go to Abi, Syria, Amman, Turkey—they go everywhere. Some of them, they get married; they left. And I stay because I can’t. I don’t know where to go. And then I can’t, my paper work is not good. I can’t have a passport, because I can’t go to Baghdad, and my I.D. is outdated. And I can’t go to Baghdad.
H: So you have to go to Baghdad to get your identification?
A: Yah, because I was born in Baghdad and I can’t it in Falluja. So, it’s so hard. Then, ah, one day the sheik, he came to my, ah, my corner in Falluja. and he’s like, ah, he wants, he wants to take me from the compound where we live, at this small compound. And he asks my company to give him permission to take me because I dishonored them, and I have to get killed—this is the tradition. They have to kill me. And I’m like, “What I did to you?” And he say, “That’s it—this we don’t have females to work with American, and with guys, and you dishonored us, and your tribe. And my tribe, they’re, they’re from Ramadi, which is you know, Sunis and . . . they are very difficult people. So . . . my colonel said, “No,” of course. He’s like, “You cannot do anything to her.” And he’s [the sheik’s] like, “Well you should, you should give it [her] give it. Yah, he wants me, to take me and kill me. And if not, he [the colonel] should give him two men, in the stead of me. . . . yah, you know they are . . . anyway, my colonel, said I should leave, this is—this is not good.
H: He recommended that you leave now.
A: Yah, he said because the sheik told him in a meeting um, if he not give me to him, like um, to the people, my people, my tribe, they will find me anyway, even if I go to Baghdad or travel anywhere. He said he has his people, he has the power and the money, and he will kill everyone who works for Americans, especially for the females because, this is, you know, you dishonor them. That’s what they think. . . . So, after two years, I went to the base, back to the big base, back to Falluja, to Camp Falluja. And I worked for a few months. And then, ah they come and tell me my picture is in the mosque in Falluja, with all my name, the full name, and all the information about me. And they make an announcement. They cooperate with the sheik of the tribe and the mayor, and everyone else who is in Anbar, and they put my picture up with all the information for honor killing.
H: So they basically posted your picture and call people, call upon everyone who sees you to kill you or turn you in.
A: Yah, so this was very dangerous. And I couldn’t go anywhere. I can’t travel. And I applied for the translator program. It used to be SIVs they call, and they say it’s only for fifty people and I can’t go.
H: Out of all the translators there, they are only taking care of fifty?
A: Yah. First of all they said yah, I get approved, and I was happy. Because you know, this was, this was the only way to leave. And then they say, no, we’re sorry it’s only for fifty, who are special case.
H: How many translators do you think there were?
A: Too many.
H: Well, I’m curious. If they are only going to help fifty translators, what percentage of the translators is that? Are they helping ten percent of the translators? Are they helping--
A: I think they’re helping four percent. Yes, from all these thousands of the translators.
H: And so all the rest of the translators are pretty much in danger.
A: Yah. Everyday. So, um, I say, ok, that’s it—I give up. I’m not going anywhere. I applied for a student visa also. And the college, they accept me.
H: What college?
A: It’s in Utah. It’s ah, Westminster. They help me to get student visa, then ah, the manager, I think, he says he wants to, he accept me because I worked good for them [the American military], but they wouldn’t give me visa to travel. And he couldn’t do anything about it.
H: So, Iraq wouldn’t give you a visa to travel?
A: No. American. Because I have, I can’t, I can’t travel from Iraq to America without getting a visa. But he can’t do anything about it. He just, he said, “It’s ok, you can come and study in the, the ah college, but I can’t, I can’t help you.
H: So he said, if you were to be able to get a visa to come to America, then, at that point, you could go and study at Westminster.
A: Yes, because they have computer science skills. And he’s like, he would like me, he said, “I would like to have a brave women to study in the college.” And I said, “Ok”. But, you know . . . I couldn’t get the visa. Every time I ask, they say, “Oh, it’s just the law, and it’s so dangerous, and it’s just it’s not the time to leave. You cannot go anywhere.” But you know,
H: And is that because too many Iraqis have [left]?
A: No, because there is no program, no way, there is no policy for anyone to leave. Except these, only these fifty people; we don’t know who is these people. . . . And for me, because I am a translator, it is so hard. Because, you know, I worked everywhere, and I know how is it, and I helped with everything, and I have clearance to do this, but when it comes to go to the States, they say, “We can’t do this.” And I’m like , “Why?” I went for convoys for those days, and I slept under the summer time. And I went in the hot weather, the cold weather, and I risked my life every day with you . Like the IED, the mortors, and suicide bombers. I survived twice from one suicide bomber and car bomb. Why I can’t get the visa? What’s the difficult things about it? And they say, “It’s just the law. We cant help” And I’m like, “Ok. . . .”
H: Did you feel betrayed?
A: Of course—I just hate everything. But I should, you know, I have no choice. Then I give up. I say, “That’s it. This can’t be happening. I think I’ll die by ID or something, and I prefer to not be, you know, disabled—just die because, I have no one to take care of me. So I used to take my friend’s missions. I’m like, “Do you have a convoy? I want to go.” And they say, “ok, go.” And they say, “Why you always taking you know, convoys that go everywhere?” And we used to fly everywhere from the province, which is very dangerous. We used to go to LSL, Taqir, Baghdad, H J and all these dangerous places.
H: So you were in a certain way, challenging death, saying come and get me death?
A: Yah, because, if you think about it—when you live for a long time in a trailer, almost four years and, you eat the same food every day, and you are in a uniform, and you cannot even brush your hair, and you go outside, you cannot take a shower, like sometimes almost for a month—without a shower, without bathroom, and you are afemale. And you trouble, and you run, and you get all these things with you, and you have to follow whatever they want, and it’s so hard to work with, you know guys—they are men, and they are Marines—it’s the hardest people to work with. I mean, they are good people; they care of us. But when it comes to work—it’s work. And when I say, “I can’t go and do this.” And they say, “Well, quit. Because, why you sign for this, why you sign the contract if you cannot do your job? Quit your job. Or travel. Go somewhere else.”
H: And neither of those are real options.
A: They don’t know. And I don’t want to tell everyone what will happen if I quit. So every rotation, like every single month we have new, new units come—and I just go to work and I don’t talk to anyone. I get sick too many times. And I get depression, and get, ah, what’s the word—migraines. So things getting so worse, you know getting worse and worse every time. Like, whatever. I mean, everyone . . . everyone will die one day. And I don’t care any more.
Then ah, I met someone from the embassy in Baghdad. She was given for assignment. She’s a female. And ah, I used to work in a program, which is IWE (Iraqi Women Engagement). And we used to go out and help women with their issues . . . health issues and, you know, we educate them. They, they don’t like the way, I don’t just call them on the phone, like I go and talk to them. But I think we did a good job with the women. I think so. Because, now Falluja is very, it’s a good place. And women, they are ok. They have a woman’s center now. And before, I almost get killed because of the center. People, they, they don’t like it. But I’m happy for them. At least we did something. And ah, people, they start to threaten me again, and say, “Why you teaching women these things? And, we don’t want to change them—just keep them home, taking care of the kids and that’s it.”
And then when things became very dangerous—that’s when they put the pictures in mosques in Baghdad. And I have to get my passport and my ID updated, so I can have another contract, with Titan, to stay in the camp and work for another year. And they said, “Go and get your paper work.” And I said, “I can’t go.” And they said, “You should go. You can’t have the contract if you do not get, ah, a good I.D.”
H: But they, they won’t . . . they didn’t want to help you get the contract?
A: They can’t. No. I have to go to the Iraqi government and do all the paper work and give it to them.
H: And if you do that, you’re likely to be turned in.
A: Yes. So I went to Baghdad. And at the army, they get my information. And they threaten me, because they know. I almost get caught trying get my, you know, having my passport and my I.D. updated. So, I came back to the camp and I said, “I can’t. . . . If you want to do anything to help me that’s fine. But if not, I can’t, and I’m not going anywhere outside the camp.” So I talked to my general at that time. And he make exception for me. And he said, “You can stay; you don’t have to sign another contract. You stay.” Then they start try to help me to, you know, leave the country. And I get, you know, something, some exceptions. And they help me at the embassy at Baghdad and the embassy at Amman.
H: So was it the people at Titan who were helping you?
A: Yah, Titan. Um, US embassy in Baghdad, and the US embassy at Amman. People at the state department, they help me out, and then I came here [Amman].
H: Do you think they were doing that because you had given so much to help?
A: Well, they said for, for a female who has works for four years and not going anywhere, and went through all these horrible things . . . you have to go. . . Yah they say I have to leave—that’s it’s—my life in danger, and . . . I have to go. So I left the country in April 18th [2007] and I came to Amman. I flew from Camp Falluja to Baghdad, and from Baghdad to Amman, and with their planes. And ah, I worked at the embassy.
H: The United States Embassy?
A: Yah, US Embassy in Amman. I applied for the refuge program, and went to the U.N. and they gave me a letter of protection. Then I went to the IMO—IOM, sorry. And I did my paper work. The program, it takes from six to nine months, they said. And they gave me a job, and they pay me well. Because, they said I earned it, you know, I worked so hard, and I deserve it. And they are sorry because they waste two years without helping me, and I should leave and I have citizenship, because I served for the military. Because if you serve for a long time, and you go dangerous places, and you reside at the camp, and you’ve go to war . . . these, these things help you out to too many things: a green card and the citizenship. So they said that they are sorry. And I said, “It’s ok.” So, I worked at the embassy and I help, um, the embassy workers with asylies [sic], and then they opened the program for another, I think, 700 people, 700 translators now. People—yah, they said, ok, there is more translators can, can go to, you know, states—immigrate to the states. And I help with this program. And I help interview them. And I work for the PAO and the IB, and the IB with the consulate station? And then, ah, last week they called and they said I get my visa. . . . yah, for the refugee program. And I’m really excited. And I am happy . . . finally. Hopefully things are getting better.
H: Do you think things are improving in Iraq?
A: Ah, I don’t think so. Especially in Baghdad.
H: What would have to happen for things to get better in Iraq?
A: . . . . I think Iraqis, they need to be . . . they shouldn’t judge other people about their religion. The, the problem now, if you are Sunni you are in trouble; if you are Shiite you are in trouble. And if you are Christian—ah—you are, you are in big trouble, like big trouble. So if people, they just should you know, forget about the differences between each other and became one family—they can save the country. I think, and if they have like, good government—people who cares about them, you know good men, who cares about people, and provide these—good jobs for them, so, their kids can live good lives
H: Are you hopeful that will happen? I mean, do you think it’s possible?
A: It is . . . one day . . . I know my people. Iraqis they are very, and ah, . . . .I don’t know . . . we are a good people. I know that for sure.
H: Do you see yourself ever going back?
A: . . . No. And why [what do ] I have to go back [to]? I don’t have anybody left. I mean, I did burry my family there, but I know they are not there—just you know, a sign and that’s it. I know they in a better place, so. . . .
H: What do you see yourself doing in five years?
A: I think I’m going to school. Hopefully I’ll get scholarship, so I can go to school, because I can’t pay for that. And ah, I wrote a book about my experience. And hopefully, I want people, you know, to see the truth, and to know there are some women in Iraq that are not. . . . Because people they think ah, that women in Iraq—ah, they are not educated, they wear black, they are, you know, just. . . . They don’t know the whole. I want them to know who’s there, you know, you know we are hard workers. I wish everybody would, you know, get the book and read it.
H: Do you have a publisher?
A; Not yet. But I have some people that wants to help me out—Marines.
H: Oh, I suspect that many people would be interested in that book . . .yah.
A: Yah, and I want to go to school and finish. Maybe, I’ll work for the State Department, if I finish my college education . . . maybe for the military, again. I have no idea.
H: What message would you give to Westerners about what’s happening in Iraq, or the state that Iraq is in, or the state that women are in? I mean I think, I think it’s hard for Westerns to really get a sense of what’s happening, you know, we only understand what the media’s telling us, and that’s often distorted anyway. So what would you say to Westerners about how things are there?
A: When I, when I used to work in Camp Falluja, and we meet with the new people who comes to Iraq, and they thinks they knows everything. They read some books and they see some programs and they basically see these. They don’t know everything. Some, some message, they get some message, some wrong message about Iraqis, especially about women. And I think they have to get educate[d] before they come, because you cannot judge people when you are . . . you cannot even talk to them. And you don’t know their, their culture, and you don’t now things to eat. And you don’t know anything about their country. I think they have, they need to educate themselves first, before they come to the country and judge people for no reason, especially women. I had a hard time, people . . . they don’t want [me] to translate for them, or do something, or work with them, just problems, they just . . . they just, and I’m like, I thought you guys, you were different. It’s the same everywhere . . . men . . . they never change.
[Everyone laughs]
H: What have you learned about yourself from all of your experiences?
A: Ah, I learned . . . People, they said I’m so strong, and you know, I’m brave, and I’m, I’m so tuff. They don’t know. [chuckle] I pretend I’m so strong and I brave. But I’m not; I’m just a woman. I get scared, all the time, and I always worry about, what about next day? And, um, when you are lonely, you don’t communicate with people because you don’t have family, and everybody just want you for some reason, and for the religion . . . it’s so, it’s, you know, very hard. And it’s even hard to make friends. I tried to make friends, but because I’m Iraqi and I’m Christian, and it’s just, I don’t know. And I learned, if I did something good, God will send someone to help me. I know. My faith, it gets so strong, totally. Yah, and I believe, whatever happens, it is going to happen for a reason, and God has a plan for everyone. And I, I know everyone here—everyone is here for, for some reason, or they have a message [for] people to learn. So . . .
H: Anything else you’d like to say that I haven’t directly asked you?
A: Well, sometimes I saw some of my friends, they don’t appreciate what they have. Like they don’t appreciate their mom, their dad, their sisters, their brothers. They always complain about the family and their problems. I want to tell [them] the family is the most important thing. And you will never know, you know, how they are important, until you lose them. And when you lose everything, you wish you had at least one people to talk, you know, give you hugs, and telling you everything’s ok, it will be fine. . . . that’s it.
H: Do you think you’ll be safe in America? Do you think you’ll be far enough away from the people [who want to harm you]?
A: Yah, yah, because I know going to America is not easy.
H: No, it won’t be.
A: But because they are, you know, and I trust Americans, like, and I’ve, I’ve been around them you know for four years, and, it’s easy, I think, to live as women. They don’t treat women like, you know, like a piece of property or something. They treat them with respect, and yah, but it’s not like what I’ve been through—it’s too much. And ah, I never regret anything, like now when I think, when I go back and think about it, I’m so happy because I do help people, and I help Americans, and even though it take a long time, well, I , I never said, “Oh, I waste four years of my life doing that.” I’m so proud. I’m so proud. And I know my dad would be proud. [small laugh] And I feel sorry for them [the people who tried to do me harm]. I’m serious. . . I know. But I, I forgive them, honestly, when I leave Iraq, like I say, “I forgive you, all of you peoples who wants to kill me and make me sick, and afraid, and having bad days all the time, thinking about people, most of them, and it’s just so scary, and sometimes I can’t sleep for three days, and I get treat[ed], and I have my doctor taking care of me and I see nightmares, and it’s, it’s horrible, horrible. But it’s ok, and I forgive them. I said, “I forgive everyone.” I wants to start another page of my life, and hopefully this will be happy and with friends and you know, maybe, you know, I can have fun again, somehow.
H: What’s the first thing you’re going to do in America?
A: I’ll go to church, and pray. Because I was praying every night. And I go [to church] every Sunday. And I pray, pray, pray until I get tired. So that’s what I want to do. I’ll go to church and pray . . . and I want to go to Disneyland. [everyone laughs]. And I wants to go to the museum. I don’t know, any one, I love them [all]. And I want to travel everywhere, and see the states. I have too many friends everywhere. Yah, and hopefully, my book will be, you know. Even if I do not make good money, that’s ok. I don’t care. I want people to read it. I’ll write the last part when I leave on the plane—that’s what I’ve decided to do. Because it’s [the flight], it’s like fourteen hours or something. And, I’ll write the end, and then that’s it. No more.
H: How many pages is it?
A: Ah! It’s too many pages. It’s about four-hundred.
H: What will you miss most about Iraq?
A: Everything. I’ll miss the food. And I’ll miss the cooking. I miss speaking Iraqi. Because you now, when I speak to Jordanians, they can’t understand. And really, I will never, ever speak Jordanian, Lebanonese, Eqyptian, I will never do these. I will speak Iraqi, always. I don’t care what they say. . . . Yah, I will miss talking to people, when I go shopping, and just go for a walk, and to the sea, and the Tigress. It’s so sad. I’ll miss home.
H: If you were to see your parents again, what’s the first thing you would say to them?
A: Hum. . . . I always ask, like when I pray, I always ask if they are proud of me. That’s what I would ask. And I’m sure they are.
Interview with A.A.
(Christian Iraqi woman, worked as translator for US military)
Interviewer, Laura Hamblin 9.13.2007
H: Tell me your story, and you might begin by telling me where you’re from, what your family did. . . . However you want to begin just telling me your unique story.
A: Ok, I born in Baghdad. My grandfather born in Ramadi, which is west of Baghdad it is Anbar area. He moved to Baghdad when he was six years old then, My father went to college in Baghdad, at Baghdad University. I had my mom and four sisters. My father was a professor, an English professor, and my mom, she was a housewife. We all went to school, me and my sisters.
We are from a big tribe in Iraq, and they are very famous, and they are Muslims, Sunis.
The area my grandfather grow up, it is a very big area. And his tribe, they call it Diwaniyah, which is the biggest tribe in Iraq. I went to school; I graduated from high school, and I finish computer science in Baghdad.
H: How old are you?
A: I’m thirty-four years old.
H: And what were the circumstances that led you to leave Iraq?
A: Well, ah, when the war started in 2003, I lost my family, my mom and four sisters. They went to bring some food for us, and I stayed home because I was afraid people they would come and they could buy the house and we don’t have a place to stay. So I had then, my mom said, “I’ll go and get some food and water for them, and then I’ll be back. “ So I said, “Can I go?” and she said, “No” because I am too young, but because she’s old, she said, “I can go and you know, I’ll come back in two hours. “ My sister wants to go with her and she cannot say [no] to them, and because I’m the oldest one, I say, “It’s ok—two hours, but be careful” and she said “Ok.” And they, they never came back. The car get hit by mortar, by men [?] of Saddam. And these people, it’s a group of people, who are fighting [the] marines and they are wild. Which is at Baghdad airport. And I did not find out about them [my family] after three days. They let me go outside the house and they say, “You can go and see if it’s your family.” At that time marines, America army—I think they were Marines at first and then the army came after them—they come to my house and they ask me, they said, “Where is my family?” And they asked for my I.D. and everything, and I filled out this story. I couldn’t find them for three days, then some of the people told me where they are, and I went and I see; I just find the car, and it’s all burned. I couldn’t find anything left.
H: The bodies weren’t around?
A: They get burned, all of them inside the car, because no one saved them. Also the driver dies.
H: Were you able to burry them?
A: Well, it’s so hard for me. Because I was female by herself, and there is, you know there is nothing to see and, but I did burry them but then. But I ask, “How I burry them?” because I can’t find anything, there is just some stuff left of their body, and they say I have to burry them with the car. Yes, that’s what they said. So, they help me, some American army, they help me to get a taxi and to get everything together, and, and bury them.
H: Where was you father?
A: My father? Ah, Saddam killed him in 1993. Because he [Saddam] decide, for us to go in our country, like teachers and doctors, they don’t serve in the military. Well, one day Saddam decide to send them [professionals] in a training camp, incase he needs some people. And I think he was planning to go to his family break in [?] that’s where he was saying all the time. So, my father went for six months. For training camp, somewhere south of Baghdad, I don’t know where. After that,when he came back home he was so sick, always sick, and always complaining that he could not eat and ah. . .
H: What kind of sickness?
A: Like, ah, stomach hurts, um, he has a problem with his liver, and then he has depression, and all these things. Something happened to him—I don’t know what happened. And then he went to a doctor and the doctor says he has to go to the hospital. So, my father was dying, you know a part, a part every day. Like, evry day they come and check on him and they sat, “Oh, the kidney’s not working any more . . . then the liver’s not working any more,” and then “His stomach, he cannot eat any more.” At the end he get a heart attack, for no reason.
H: How old was he when he died?
A: He was too young. He was like, fifty-something. And my father he is, you know, he is educated. He eat well, and he knows—he exercise. Everybody was shocked because you know, he just went for six months at the camp.
H: So you don’t know any of the details about what he experienced in the camp?
A: I do. I did. I asked the doctor. And, usually doctors they won’t say anything, but because he is our family doctor, he said, “They poisoned him, with the food,” and that the things they used [the poisons]—they put it in there for everyday, so when he died at the end, nobody would even know. They die by a heart attack, but it affects the body first, like the, all the body system. Then at the end, people died, and you never know. And you, you can’t ask.
H: And you can’t prove it?
A: I can’t prove it and I can’t ask. If I said, “Hey, my father [was] poisoned in the camp,” they would kill me. I can’t—I can’t say anything. And the doctor said, “Please don’t say anything, because I’ll get in trouble, but that’s what happened. That’s it—just accept it.”
H: Do you know why they wanted him dead?
A: Well, my father died, and his friends, in the same camp. Not only him—too many. I mean, when I was thinking bout it, my mom she has like, my father has friends, and his friends, they have wives, and they are friends of my mom. So every time we hear about someone died, it’s very strange because they were in the same group, the same years and they died, like, one by one.
H: Were they all academics, were they all professors—these friends?
A: Yah, yah, they were all same school, they graduated from, same college. But my father was, you know, when he was in college, he has problems with the Ba’ath party. He wasn’t . . . he wasn’t . . . you know, he never joined it—the Ba’ath party. They, they, what happened [was], they call it the black list—which is, he will never travel, he will not have a passport, he will never get promoted, he cannot, teach, only bad places. I mean, it’s just, I think at that time, they say, “Saddam, he does not like educated people. So when people know too much—they [the Ba’ath party] just, they just fear.
H: So how long did your family live alone after your father died?
A: Ah, from 1993 to 2003.
H: So for ten years your mother was alone with the four girls?
A: Yah.
H: And then? And you’re the only one left?
A: Yes, I am the only one left.
H: Do you have cousins?
A: No, my father, he is the only son for his family. My mom’s the same. My mom’s parents, they were too old when they had my mom. So . . . My mom was Christian and my father was Muslim. They get married and their families get mad at then—both of them. So my grandfather disowned my father. And he went to the courthouse and he said, “This is it—he is not my son, and he will never get my money, and I don’t want him any more.”
H: So you don’t have a relationship with your grandparents—you didn’t?
A: You know, I remember them, when I was little. Because I was the oldest one. But usually when the one, like the old guy in the family, when he just wants someone, he go[es] to the tribe, and he said, “This one is not my son, and I don’t want him any more because he is married from a different religion.” So they make an announcement, and they say, “Ok, That is it. They do stay home”—the sheik and the tribe, he tell everyone to come for a meeting and they make a statement of all of us, like me, and my family—it’s like an honor killing statement, which means—anybody, anybody can shoot us and kill us for no reason. They will never go to jail. It’s just wrong, I mean that’s it.
H: What happened to you after your mother and sisters died?
A: Ah, I used to live in a small apartment. From , . . we have one room. We had one room—I remember it very well. And [for] the honor of people he [the landlord] think, he wants to kick me out, outside the apartment because I cannot pay him. And I say that, “I can’t go, I can’t leave. I have no one.” And he’s like, “I don’t care.” People, they steal the banks, and you know what happened in 2003, and there is no law, no police, no—nothing. And he came to my house and he say, “If you did not leave the house, the apartment, I can send people to kill you and nobody will know. We have no good government, no police, nothing. I can do whatever I can.” So I get scared, then I say, “I can’t pay you for the six month, because I was home. And there was no job any more.”
H: Did you work before?
A: I used to work, to support my mom and sisters. I worked at a trading company, as a secretary—for two years.
H; But at this point you weren’t able to work?
A: No because they killed—all the business closed, when they hear about the war. Before the war start, everybody left, and there is no more business. I had some money saved, and I spent it all because the bread get so expensive, and even the water, we used to buy the water from the other’s trucks. They fill it with water and they come to us. It was hard times. And the females by themselves, it was so scary. We used to go to the shelter in the building, every night, and we spend almost a week there. This is why my mom, she have to go get food for us, because we don’t have men. You know when you have men, it’s ok, fine to go outside and get food. But for us, it’s difficult. Then, um, I told him, I said, “I can’t pay you the rent.” And I can’t go anywhere, and I know my people—if I go there [to my people] they will kill me for no reason. Even, even I lost my family, and I don’t know them [my extended family], and I don’t know where to go, but [he] doesn’t believe me. But anyway, I remember, he said, “Ok, if anything happen—I told you so.” The he said—
H: So that’s a threat!
A: It is. Yah, and the reason he was saying that is because he was saying the country is a mess and there is no government, and no one can punish me, so I can do whatever I want. Which was right, at that time. So I ask him how [do] I pay him, and he’s like, “Just leave the furniture for me.” So I left the whole thing. I worked so hard to get it—everything—eeach part in my apartment . . . and I just left it. And I get my, I only get pictures and my clothes. I give the other stuff to the poor people in the building—my mom’s things and my sisters’. I get the pictures . . . and then I left. And ah, I get taxi and I, I don’t know where I’m going. So I was thinking . . . to go to my friend house, maybe. And I was thinking about it. But you know for us, our society is different, and if I show up, and I’m a female by myself, and I come in late, at the night, the parents, they’re not going to like the idea, or the husband . . . this, it’s just wrong, you know. So, the taxi driver was driving me around, and I was thinking I wanted to go home, at time. And it was scary and we have curfew, and you have to make sure you are not going somewhere that you get shot—
H: Dangerous.
A; Yes, dangerous, and there is too many people with guns everywhere. People from the Ba’ath party, they’re looking for people who were in the army. Like you will never know where [if] you get shot and [if] you get home. So, I was looking for, for nothing—I don’t know where to go. And I was passing from the hotel in Baghdad, and they put signs in the door saying they need someone who can speak English. And I was, not perfect in English, just good in English. So, I had only1,000 dinar [$1.00 US is approximately 1,250 dinar] that’s all I had, and I wanted to give it to the taxi driver, and he’s like, “No take it.” And I said, “No, it’s ok, you take it.” Then I give it to him, and I went to the hotel and I talked to the boss and he was, they were, ah, um—Special Forces. They, they get the hotel and you know, they live there, and they do their job every day. So I told him, “I can speak English, and I know Baghdad very well. I can help if you want.” And they said, “Ok.” And they asked me ask me about my family, and if they agreed if I can work for them or not. And said, I told them the story. They say, it’s ok, they will take care of me, and they gave me a room., by myself, and a shower, which is so nice. They brought me some stuff to wear that they got. And they paid me $5.00 a day. That’s what I get.
So we used to go outside every day, you know, I read the signs for them, and we go to the buildings, and I show them the places, and short cuts to go. Then, ah, before they left, they take me to the Green Zone, which is the, ah, military base stayed there, and ah, they asked Titan, it’s a, it was a new company who provide translators. And then they asked, my boss to Titan to give me everything. They gave me a nice letter, um of like appreciation, a letter of appreciation. Um, so my boss like me, and so it’s like, ok. Then I get hired in two weeks. After that my assignment was west, which was Falluja, Ramadi, that’s in Anbar Province, that was the post. So I went to Falluja, Camp Falluja. And I lived there for four years. Working for marines, then I went to through two wars in Falluja. And, ah, I went to Baghdad during this four years twice. Once I went to see one of my friend. I went to her house. And I think they knows about me, so after I left, going through the Green Zone, then we usually fly. We flew from Falluja to Green Zone, and then when we come back we go to through Green Zone and then we flew back to Falluja. Ah, I think they found out about me, they know where I was that weekend.
H: They who? Who is they?
A: I have no idea. Before that there is no names, no groups—just people. They know the translators who works for them. So, they killed my friend. And they left a sign on her body. She was coming back from work. And ah, the reason I go and visit her, because she gave me a loan at her house, and I pay her. They used to pay us like $400.00, if I leave, you know, if I leave for the army and I go out on convoys and go on missions and stuff. So my payment was good. So I rent[ed] a room from her—you know, I can have vacation and come back, and do shopping, stuff. She used to live with her mom, and I was helping them with money because things were so bad. After I left the Green Zone, ah, her mom, she called me—and she said, “Please don’t ever come back again, because they killed her.” And I said—“They, they what?” And she said, “They killed her. They killed my daughter. And they left a sign on her body saying, ‘That’s what happens to people who help in the American traitors Jewish.’” That’s what they said. I can’t remember exactly what’s the words.
But that’s what happened. . . . that’s it . . . I never went anywhere . . . after that. I was afraid, because people, they, they just died . . . for no reason. And I lost my best of friend, and she was kind, and very nice and she did not do anything. She has nothing to do with American. They killed her for no reason, just because I went and see her and I live with her. So I told my embassy I shouldn’t go anywhere, I should just stay in camp. So I stayed. . . . I worked with the civil force for four years. And I liked my job. It’s good to go and help people—people who need help. Ah, you know, I lived for four years, with the Marines, and ah, two years I lived in Falluja at that time, in a small building. I had my room and people taking care of me. Then ah, because I do convoys, then I go on missions for ten or eleven days, and people, they get to know me in Falluja—ah, sheiks, imams, mayors, all these people, the government . . . ah . . .
So people, they start to call me—people from Falluja—insurgents, I don’t know who they are. And ah, I told the Marines. And they said, “It’s ok, don’t worry, we will take care of it.” And I was safe, because, you know, they take care of me. And I never go anywhere. I just live on the base. And coming to the building where we used to work—it’s like a health [office]. I stayed for two years. And we help too many people, but people, they don’t appreciate what we do. And I’m female, of course they will look at me like, you know, they think about me like, in a bad way. And I used to be very sensitive about it. But . . .
H: Now when you say “they” look at you and think about you in a bad way, is this the people that you help—are they are judging you in a bad way?
A: Yah, of course, yah, every day. I hear stupid things—The men they come and ask me stupid questions: men, sheiks , imams. But I can’t tell them. I mean when I get this job . . . when you are alone, and you are female, and you have no place to go, and you accept a job. I think I was so lucky at that night to find a place where I will be comfortable at that night. Because you know how is it—it’s war, and the country’s—you know, it’s a mess. You can’t do anything. When I get this job . . . I choose it because I have no option. Like, I don’t have another choice. But then I liked it, because I know we’re helping people, and, and it’s safe. I mean, for Americans, that’s how I think about it. They expect more . . . they, they, ah, they take care of us. I always have good friends. And I make good friends.
H: So, when you were helping people, what type of assistance, what type help did you give them?
A: I do translate, you now. And ah, we used to do the visas for the people. They needed some work. Like for Americans, when they went to the cities, they destroy some houses and some places. So they start to pay them, pay people for, you know . . . the damage . . . So I was trying to help them, to get some money, and I explain to them the procedure, to the lawyer who paid. I mean we worked so hard, and they don’t appreciate it—which is fine with me—I just, I don’t care. I’m just, I’m doing my job. And I was fair with them . . . but you know how they are. Then when I get threatened too many times—I get threatened like, seven times—
H: Threatened in what way?
A: Ah, cell phones . . .
H: No, but, what were they . . . were they threatening to take your life?
A: Yah, they were going to. But they um, said in papers, like sometimes they sent papers, or they sent message, or they call me, they talk to me. That’s what they said, “If you did not quit this job, we will we will cut you head . . .” and ah . . . some bad words. So . . . saying they were good people, and I’m doing this because I’m bad, I’m a whore and all these things. . . . They have no idea. If I quit my job, I can’t go anywhere.
Then things [were] getting so bad after that. Because when you stay for a long time, and people see you every day—we used to see people every day, but not Friday because it’s a holiday—and, it’s just wrong. I mean, you shouldn’t stay in the same place. You should travel. Like I have my friends, they also work as translators, females, and they make some money and then they travel. They go to Abi, Syria, Amman, Turkey—they go everywhere. Some of them, they get married; they left. And I stay because I can’t. I don’t know where to go. And then I can’t, my paper work is not good. I can’t have a passport, because I can’t go to Baghdad, and my I.D. is outdated. And I can’t go to Baghdad.
H: So you have to go to Baghdad to get your identification?
A: Yah, because I was born in Baghdad and I can’t it in Falluja. So, it’s so hard. Then, ah, one day the sheik, he came to my, ah, my corner in Falluja. and he’s like, ah, he wants, he wants to take me from the compound where we live, at this small compound. And he asks my company to give him permission to take me because I dishonored them, and I have to get killed—this is the tradition. They have to kill me. And I’m like, “What I did to you?” And he say, “That’s it—this we don’t have females to work with American, and with guys, and you dishonored us, and your tribe. And my tribe, they’re, they’re from Ramadi, which is you know, Sunis and . . . they are very difficult people. So . . . my colonel said, “No,” of course. He’s like, “You cannot do anything to her.” And he’s [the sheik’s] like, “Well you should, you should give it [her] give it. Yah, he wants me, to take me and kill me. And if not, he [the colonel] should give him two men, in the stead of me. . . . yah, you know they are . . . anyway, my colonel, said I should leave, this is—this is not good.
H: He recommended that you leave now.
A: Yah, he said because the sheik told him in a meeting um, if he not give me to him, like um, to the people, my people, my tribe, they will find me anyway, even if I go to Baghdad or travel anywhere. He said he has his people, he has the power and the money, and he will kill everyone who works for Americans, especially for the females because, this is, you know, you dishonor them. That’s what they think. . . . So, after two years, I went to the base, back to the big base, back to Falluja, to Camp Falluja. And I worked for a few months. And then, ah they come and tell me my picture is in the mosque in Falluja, with all my name, the full name, and all the information about me. And they make an announcement. They cooperate with the sheik of the tribe and the mayor, and everyone else who is in Anbar, and they put my picture up with all the information for honor killing.
H: So they basically posted your picture and call people, call upon everyone who sees you to kill you or turn you in.
A: Yah, so this was very dangerous. And I couldn’t go anywhere. I can’t travel. And I applied for the translator program. It used to be SIVs they call, and they say it’s only for fifty people and I can’t go.
H: Out of all the translators there, they are only taking care of fifty?
A: Yah. First of all they said yah, I get approved, and I was happy. Because you know, this was, this was the only way to leave. And then they say, no, we’re sorry it’s only for fifty, who are special case.
H: How many translators do you think there were?
A: Too many.
H: Well, I’m curious. If they are only going to help fifty translators, what percentage of the translators is that? Are they helping ten percent of the translators? Are they helping--
A: I think they’re helping four percent. Yes, from all these thousands of the translators.
H: And so all the rest of the translators are pretty much in danger.
A: Yah. Everyday. So, um, I say, ok, that’s it—I give up. I’m not going anywhere. I applied for a student visa also. And the college, they accept me.
H: What college?
A: It’s in Utah. It’s ah, Westminster. They help me to get student visa, then ah, the manager, I think, he says he wants to, he accept me because I worked good for them [the American military], but they wouldn’t give me visa to travel. And he couldn’t do anything about it.
H: So, Iraq wouldn’t give you a visa to travel?
A: No. American. Because I have, I can’t, I can’t travel from Iraq to America without getting a visa. But he can’t do anything about it. He just, he said, “It’s ok, you can come and study in the, the ah college, but I can’t, I can’t help you.
H: So he said, if you were to be able to get a visa to come to America, then, at that point, you could go and study at Westminster.
A: Yes, because they have computer science skills. And he’s like, he would like me, he said, “I would like to have a brave women to study in the college.” And I said, “Ok”. But, you know . . . I couldn’t get the visa. Every time I ask, they say, “Oh, it’s just the law, and it’s so dangerous, and it’s just it’s not the time to leave. You cannot go anywhere.” But you know,
H: And is that because too many Iraqis have [left]?
A: No, because there is no program, no way, there is no policy for anyone to leave. Except these, only these fifty people; we don’t know who is these people. . . . And for me, because I am a translator, it is so hard. Because, you know, I worked everywhere, and I know how is it, and I helped with everything, and I have clearance to do this, but when it comes to go to the States, they say, “We can’t do this.” And I’m like , “Why?” I went for convoys for those days, and I slept under the summer time. And I went in the hot weather, the cold weather, and I risked my life every day with you . Like the IED, the mortors, and suicide bombers. I survived twice from one suicide bomber and car bomb. Why I can’t get the visa? What’s the difficult things about it? And they say, “It’s just the law. We cant help” And I’m like, “Ok. . . .”
H: Did you feel betrayed?
A: Of course—I just hate everything. But I should, you know, I have no choice. Then I give up. I say, “That’s it. This can’t be happening. I think I’ll die by ID or something, and I prefer to not be, you know, disabled—just die because, I have no one to take care of me. So I used to take my friend’s missions. I’m like, “Do you have a convoy? I want to go.” And they say, “ok, go.” And they say, “Why you always taking you know, convoys that go everywhere?” And we used to fly everywhere from the province, which is very dangerous. We used to go to LSL, Taqir, Baghdad, H J and all these dangerous places.
H: So you were in a certain way, challenging death, saying come and get me death?
A: Yah, because, if you think about it—when you live for a long time in a trailer, almost four years and, you eat the same food every day, and you are in a uniform, and you cannot even brush your hair, and you go outside, you cannot take a shower, like sometimes almost for a month—without a shower, without bathroom, and you are afemale. And you trouble, and you run, and you get all these things with you, and you have to follow whatever they want, and it’s so hard to work with, you know guys—they are men, and they are Marines—it’s the hardest people to work with. I mean, they are good people; they care of us. But when it comes to work—it’s work. And when I say, “I can’t go and do this.” And they say, “Well, quit. Because, why you sign for this, why you sign the contract if you cannot do your job? Quit your job. Or travel. Go somewhere else.”
H: And neither of those are real options.
A: They don’t know. And I don’t want to tell everyone what will happen if I quit. So every rotation, like every single month we have new, new units come—and I just go to work and I don’t talk to anyone. I get sick too many times. And I get depression, and get, ah, what’s the word—migraines. So things getting so worse, you know getting worse and worse every time. Like, whatever. I mean, everyone . . . everyone will die one day. And I don’t care any more.
Then ah, I met someone from the embassy in Baghdad. She was given for assignment. She’s a female. And ah, I used to work in a program, which is IWE (Iraqi Women Engagement). And we used to go out and help women with their issues . . . health issues and, you know, we educate them. They, they don’t like the way, I don’t just call them on the phone, like I go and talk to them. But I think we did a good job with the women. I think so. Because, now Falluja is very, it’s a good place. And women, they are ok. They have a woman’s center now. And before, I almost get killed because of the center. People, they, they don’t like it. But I’m happy for them. At least we did something. And ah, people, they start to threaten me again, and say, “Why you teaching women these things? And, we don’t want to change them—just keep them home, taking care of the kids and that’s it.”
And then when things became very dangerous—that’s when they put the pictures in mosques in Baghdad. And I have to get my passport and my ID updated, so I can have another contract, with Titan, to stay in the camp and work for another year. And they said, “Go and get your paper work.” And I said, “I can’t go.” And they said, “You should go. You can’t have the contract if you do not get, ah, a good I.D.”
H: But they, they won’t . . . they didn’t want to help you get the contract?
A: They can’t. No. I have to go to the Iraqi government and do all the paper work and give it to them.
H: And if you do that, you’re likely to be turned in.
A: Yes. So I went to Baghdad. And at the army, they get my information. And they threaten me, because they know. I almost get caught trying get my, you know, having my passport and my I.D. updated. So, I came back to the camp and I said, “I can’t. . . . If you want to do anything to help me that’s fine. But if not, I can’t, and I’m not going anywhere outside the camp.” So I talked to my general at that time. And he make exception for me. And he said, “You can stay; you don’t have to sign another contract. You stay.” Then they start try to help me to, you know, leave the country. And I get, you know, something, some exceptions. And they help me at the embassy at Baghdad and the embassy at Amman.
H: So was it the people at Titan who were helping you?
A: Yah, Titan. Um, US embassy in Baghdad, and the US embassy at Amman. People at the state department, they help me out, and then I came here [Amman].
H: Do you think they were doing that because you had given so much to help?
A: Well, they said for, for a female who has works for four years and not going anywhere, and went through all these horrible things . . . you have to go. . . Yah they say I have to leave—that’s it’s—my life in danger, and . . . I have to go. So I left the country in April 18th [2007] and I came to Amman. I flew from Camp Falluja to Baghdad, and from Baghdad to Amman, and with their planes. And ah, I worked at the embassy.
H: The United States Embassy?
A: Yah, US Embassy in Amman. I applied for the refuge program, and went to the U.N. and they gave me a letter of protection. Then I went to the IMO—IOM, sorry. And I did my paper work. The program, it takes from six to nine months, they said. And they gave me a job, and they pay me well. Because, they said I earned it, you know, I worked so hard, and I deserve it. And they are sorry because they waste two years without helping me, and I should leave and I have citizenship, because I served for the military. Because if you serve for a long time, and you go dangerous places, and you reside at the camp, and you’ve go to war . . . these, these things help you out to too many things: a green card and the citizenship. So they said that they are sorry. And I said, “It’s ok.” So, I worked at the embassy and I help, um, the embassy workers with asylies [sic], and then they opened the program for another, I think, 700 people, 700 translators now. People—yah, they said, ok, there is more translators can, can go to, you know, states—immigrate to the states. And I help with this program. And I help interview them. And I work for the PAO and the IB, and the IB with the consulate station? And then, ah, last week they called and they said I get my visa. . . . yah, for the refugee program. And I’m really excited. And I am happy . . . finally. Hopefully things are getting better.
H: Do you think things are improving in Iraq?
A: Ah, I don’t think so. Especially in Baghdad.
H: What would have to happen for things to get better in Iraq?
A: . . . . I think Iraqis, they need to be . . . they shouldn’t judge other people about their religion. The, the problem now, if you are Sunni you are in trouble; if you are Shiite you are in trouble. And if you are Christian—ah—you are, you are in big trouble, like big trouble. So if people, they just should you know, forget about the differences between each other and became one family—they can save the country. I think, and if they have like, good government—people who cares about them, you know good men, who cares about people, and provide these—good jobs for them, so, their kids can live good lives
H: Are you hopeful that will happen? I mean, do you think it’s possible?
A: It is . . . one day . . . I know my people. Iraqis they are very, and ah, . . . .I don’t know . . . we are a good people. I know that for sure.
H: Do you see yourself ever going back?
A: . . . No. And why [what do ] I have to go back [to]? I don’t have anybody left. I mean, I did burry my family there, but I know they are not there—just you know, a sign and that’s it. I know they in a better place, so. . . .
H: What do you see yourself doing in five years?
A: I think I’m going to school. Hopefully I’ll get scholarship, so I can go to school, because I can’t pay for that. And ah, I wrote a book about my experience. And hopefully, I want people, you know, to see the truth, and to know there are some women in Iraq that are not. . . . Because people they think ah, that women in Iraq—ah, they are not educated, they wear black, they are, you know, just. . . . They don’t know the whole. I want them to know who’s there, you know, you know we are hard workers. I wish everybody would, you know, get the book and read it.
H: Do you have a publisher?
A; Not yet. But I have some people that wants to help me out—Marines.
H: Oh, I suspect that many people would be interested in that book . . .yah.
A: Yah, and I want to go to school and finish. Maybe, I’ll work for the State Department, if I finish my college education . . . maybe for the military, again. I have no idea.
H: What message would you give to Westerners about what’s happening in Iraq, or the state that Iraq is in, or the state that women are in? I mean I think, I think it’s hard for Westerns to really get a sense of what’s happening, you know, we only understand what the media’s telling us, and that’s often distorted anyway. So what would you say to Westerners about how things are there?
A: When I, when I used to work in Camp Falluja, and we meet with the new people who comes to Iraq, and they thinks they knows everything. They read some books and they see some programs and they basically see these. They don’t know everything. Some, some message, they get some message, some wrong message about Iraqis, especially about women. And I think they have to get educate[d] before they come, because you cannot judge people when you are . . . you cannot even talk to them. And you don’t know their, their culture, and you don’t now things to eat. And you don’t know anything about their country. I think they have, they need to educate themselves first, before they come to the country and judge people for no reason, especially women. I had a hard time, people . . . they don’t want [me] to translate for them, or do something, or work with them, just problems, they just . . . they just, and I’m like, I thought you guys, you were different. It’s the same everywhere . . . men . . . they never change.
[Everyone laughs]
H: What have you learned about yourself from all of your experiences?
A: Ah, I learned . . . People, they said I’m so strong, and you know, I’m brave, and I’m, I’m so tuff. They don’t know. [chuckle] I pretend I’m so strong and I brave. But I’m not; I’m just a woman. I get scared, all the time, and I always worry about, what about next day? And, um, when you are lonely, you don’t communicate with people because you don’t have family, and everybody just want you for some reason, and for the religion . . . it’s so, it’s, you know, very hard. And it’s even hard to make friends. I tried to make friends, but because I’m Iraqi and I’m Christian, and it’s just, I don’t know. And I learned, if I did something good, God will send someone to help me. I know. My faith, it gets so strong, totally. Yah, and I believe, whatever happens, it is going to happen for a reason, and God has a plan for everyone. And I, I know everyone here—everyone is here for, for some reason, or they have a message [for] people to learn. So . . .
H: Anything else you’d like to say that I haven’t directly asked you?
A: Well, sometimes I saw some of my friends, they don’t appreciate what they have. Like they don’t appreciate their mom, their dad, their sisters, their brothers. They always complain about the family and their problems. I want to tell [them] the family is the most important thing. And you will never know, you know, how they are important, until you lose them. And when you lose everything, you wish you had at least one people to talk, you know, give you hugs, and telling you everything’s ok, it will be fine. . . . that’s it.
H: Do you think you’ll be safe in America? Do you think you’ll be far enough away from the people [who want to harm you]?
A: Yah, yah, because I know going to America is not easy.
H: No, it won’t be.
A: But because they are, you know, and I trust Americans, like, and I’ve, I’ve been around them you know for four years, and, it’s easy, I think, to live as women. They don’t treat women like, you know, like a piece of property or something. They treat them with respect, and yah, but it’s not like what I’ve been through—it’s too much. And ah, I never regret anything, like now when I think, when I go back and think about it, I’m so happy because I do help people, and I help Americans, and even though it take a long time, well, I , I never said, “Oh, I waste four years of my life doing that.” I’m so proud. I’m so proud. And I know my dad would be proud. [small laugh] And I feel sorry for them [the people who tried to do me harm]. I’m serious. . . I know. But I, I forgive them, honestly, when I leave Iraq, like I say, “I forgive you, all of you peoples who wants to kill me and make me sick, and afraid, and having bad days all the time, thinking about people, most of them, and it’s just so scary, and sometimes I can’t sleep for three days, and I get treat[ed], and I have my doctor taking care of me and I see nightmares, and it’s, it’s horrible, horrible. But it’s ok, and I forgive them. I said, “I forgive everyone.” I wants to start another page of my life, and hopefully this will be happy and with friends and you know, maybe, you know, I can have fun again, somehow.
H: What’s the first thing you’re going to do in America?
A: I’ll go to church, and pray. Because I was praying every night. And I go [to church] every Sunday. And I pray, pray, pray until I get tired. So that’s what I want to do. I’ll go to church and pray . . . and I want to go to Disneyland. [everyone laughs]. And I wants to go to the museum. I don’t know, any one, I love them [all]. And I want to travel everywhere, and see the states. I have too many friends everywhere. Yah, and hopefully, my book will be, you know. Even if I do not make good money, that’s ok. I don’t care. I want people to read it. I’ll write the last part when I leave on the plane—that’s what I’ve decided to do. Because it’s [the flight], it’s like fourteen hours or something. And, I’ll write the end, and then that’s it. No more.
H: How many pages is it?
A: Ah! It’s too many pages. It’s about four-hundred.
H: What will you miss most about Iraq?
A: Everything. I’ll miss the food. And I’ll miss the cooking. I miss speaking Iraqi. Because you now, when I speak to Jordanians, they can’t understand. And really, I will never, ever speak Jordanian, Lebanonese, Eqyptian, I will never do these. I will speak Iraqi, always. I don’t care what they say. . . . Yah, I will miss talking to people, when I go shopping, and just go for a walk, and to the sea, and the Tigress. It’s so sad. I’ll miss home.
H: If you were to see your parents again, what’s the first thing you would say to them?
A: Hum. . . . I always ask, like when I pray, I always ask if they are proud of me. That’s what I would ask. And I’m sure they are.
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