Interview with Hania Al.Obaidi
Interviewer:Laura Hamblin
Translator:Blsam Abd Lkareem
Transcriber:Anoud Halasa
L.H:Now telling us your names, your ages, & were are you from?
Balsam: my name is balsam,balsam abd l kareem Hani,iam a dentist iam 48 yrs old iam grandmother now, this is my daughter Hania.
H.O:hi my name is hania iam 32 yrs old
L.H:32???? Oh come on…
Hania:23….. because of this baby,,this is my baby yousef,he is my grand son.
L.H: Could we see his hair?
H:ok
L.H:Ohhh,how old is he?
H:he is now 2 months..
Balsam:1 week to the two months..he didn’t complete….he's 7 weeks.
L.H:Oh wow that's good.Now talk about your study & collage?
H.O:iam industrial designer.studied in a school for fun musical balleh,elemantery and secondary in Baghdad,after (?) a balarina,she went to an academic of art ,undergrads,she studies industrial designs…
L.H:What happened?
H.O: In my second year of undergrade's studies I was engaged to my husband,I was engaged for two years I cant get married because of the responsibilities that encounter my studies..i loved my studies in undergrads in general interior design specialize in specific area ,in my case I love industrial design so I was (?) and according to the regulations at the university of Baghdad,it could be more involved or specialized if we are chosen as the best students for the morning studies and the afternoon studies in the university,so I became the 1st student above all,because I love to do my graduate program in industrial design.
For my forth year of study, before graduation as a requirement for graduation I have to do two projects for special design .one is signed as a specific idea ,it's a furniture the another one has to be a unique idea and (?) power instrument that should be unique of its design.before graduation,I did my research,I thought of a machine that we do (?) on remote control, and for that I have to connect with all the electrical engineers to build a circumistance,it was a challenging idea.But in that time the situation in the surrounding neighbourhood was becoming worse as well as the situation in the country that was not very situated.
H.L:What time is this?
H.O:It was last year.i wasn’t able to connect with all (?) because of the situation,I had to change my idea into a hoover like.it's an instrument that wipes floor on remote control industry.So I have to be able to make a simple idea because I have to present it for the final exam exhibition before the graduation those who failed to exhibit it for the final exhibition are not graduated even though if they had scored the best results for the year required they have within the idea…..
In condition of that, starting with my 1st idea which I had to design an external cover for the instrument because I have to change the idea..
I didn’t measure much time for my sec idea , so I have to go for a simple thought and simple design just to (?) the time for the requirement for my graduation.
It has to do it from A to Z.
Something (?) they have to design every singal detail for the pieces keeping the external cover (?) they have to design it ,they have to build the set where they manufactured.They maybe(?) for making(?) from fiber glass,the cover has to be thick with colors.
L.H:This is after your graduation's level?
H.O:yes.
L.H: Wow..
H.O:The problem I faced with my education with my year of my industrial design when I be apart to a place on my 1st year after finishing my 1st year of industrial design.at the university my full reliance and everybody's reliance in industrial design is on the work show that attached to our studies because basically all the woods will be get it from the work show (?)the design for every instruments we need even the material to set our models,to build our designs are available in the work show and they would be provided it would be easy only we put our ideas ..
And what happens in the war & because of the war,there's a piece of work was stolen,it was luted, therefore we had to suffer with the struggle with the exhibition of our ideas and projects,so finally I managed to present my instrument for the exhibition (?)
So professor Mohammad who was the one who saw my exhibition(?) he really liked the idea so much…called for many journalists to interview with me ,,I deserve be happy for it and the(?) to generize it for Germany because our baseful in the industrial design is germany and germany is fulling informed of what we have ever developed within our areas of study.
So before that,He Cheking my idea together with other ideas to germany who share it to the students there & the students were fascinated with our project such as my idea.He said you should continue exchanging ideas to the students abroad than ourselves, & also he said to me that you have when graduate you have to join the university to be one of our faculty and become one of our staff so that you work with us on projects.
H.O:I was asked by a professor to apply for(?) because my equipment was unique and as I am started the process and I was doing the heater well signature…
(?) unique position make me(?) I was faced with the situation that the family was threatened and I had to leave the country even in terms I couldn’t even get my equipment a piece of equipment because it belongs to the university which becomes part of (?) exhibition of the university so I couldn’t get it.It was very difficult for me to make a new one because it's a very complicated process to do.
So I was promised by the professor that just to be invited to the university because he would put my name in a list of people who gets a scholarships to go and finish their education in Germany,and one specific Germany is becoming(?) the industrial country where ideas could be implemented and ideas ended up studying and continue my digree,but it still didn’t happen.
So I was very securative I woulnt be the best student in the class, because only best students can get the opportunity to get the scholarships,this student it means the highest scores ,I was so afraid because the kind of his study that we had is very unique.it's not available in any other arab's country so I had no way to go except to Jordan or Syria for my(?) they told me bye the telephone that I was selected as the best student for the best(?) but I lost the joy of receiving it myself they had to communicate the information for me on phone even if they were the best memories we had to the student's(?) it's the day when the photos collected,photos taken they prepared for it,it's an important day in the student's life even it was a bad day.we were very(?)prepared than (?) surrounded by focus, and planes were (?) we couldn’t reach the university to take our graduation's photos.
It was very sad for my males colleagues because iam the only female who studies this branch and iam the only graduate,not a woman at night,not a girl at night for this branch of study ,iam the only one (?) I couldn’t make it for the graduation there.
L.H: What day was that?
H.O:It was(?)
All the male colleagues of my (?) told me and they said that all the cars decorated,they had all the music people,I couldn’t get there to (?) so they promised that they would make a special graduation ceremony for the new situation.
(?) It seems that iam unlucky of my graduation's photos because we scheduled after 10 days they do it,at this time I was ready and as I was preceeding to do it,I received a call from my younger sisters who were shouting and crying,they said dad is in blood because it has been an explosion .so in that same day, my father had been an accident, there was an explosion in the car,he was bleeding so I had to stop again to the hospital,seems I was not lucky to celebrate my graduation's day,but despite everything my colleagues (?) to hospital and want to see him,and when I saw that he is ok ,my friends decided that met us no matter just to take(?) because we had to do it when we are on the other side (?) this is in my case….
Then our instruments in our college with the exhibits we were asked to exhibit in the main university which is in Baghdad at different locations and at the same time we were asked to submit the photos of our instruments and equipments in American's exhibition,American's university asked for to see participate with our photo images of the equipments,we notice the participant in the U.S university exhibition and match to take the photos images of our instruments but yet we couldn’t go and participate in the(?) exhibition in the main university,because it was difficult to transfer the equipment from one location to another inside Baghdad (?) to the state.we were not sure that our instruments will not be stolen on the road or even had been saved to the university,it's an expensive equipment that he(?)
By that time I had a break with one of my two tutors to pass me the good news about my graduation, because it has noway to get to the university,we have received our certificate by that time.The 1st threat that we have received was through the examination's time that we couldn’t leave the house of my family,so two of my colleagues came and picked me up to the university to (?) from the exams because my family couldn’t leave..
So as a department of the requirement of the master's degree,program is to take a computer training course and to trust becoming one of the(?) even though I had a computer training but I have to attend one of the colleges to obtain some(?) from there.Regulation of the course was the(?) I convinced it one week because I knew all the material(……?....). we were there, we heard gun shots,and he heard lots of gun shots and disturbing the university,it was one of our female students,female colleagues who got killed shot inside the uni inside our location where we horrified in..
L.H:What was the ( postpone?)?
H.O:This was at the university that simply crossed the road from where I (met)? Ibn Al Haitham university and then forced students were even pregnant she was in the uni center,the collage center,and we were conforming the exam on one of these homes,& all are not inside where we were,& we were not allowed to go down and even our families couldn’t come and take us ,we didn’t understand why…
L.H: Do you know who shot them?
H.O:It was just a car passing by that,shot them and continue.
L.H: Do u think it was a random shot or(?)???
H.O: No it was intended for her because we were all from different study or intention.This is graduate program's exam,so one of the other girls who knew that one ,she said that she was very innocent person that had no harm on anybody but she was killed.We were watching the whole thing from up floor,and it was very scary because the collage's guys and the university's guys came all around and (?) closed the gates.The army were surrounding and also we were afraid because the American came to check the incidents,& we know that Americans if anybody shoots randomly they would shoot anybody in the surrounding ,we were staying in the hall that all was surrounded with glass and were so scared that if anything happens we don’t know what we have to do.
So in that time ……? I have received…..?i decided to leave ,so my father and my brother left the country first because theye were expecting to care for our departure.My mother stayed behind me because she knew how much I (?) this graduate study & it an opportunity for me that nobody gets easily,so she stayed behind me before until I finish that course….
L.H:Could you tell me more about the threat?
How was the threat and why?
H.O: So we all know in Iraq that (?) are so different basically anything that should …..(?) that families of good standard are subject to threat some engineers ,some doctors.even one's house or a person who is a figure in his society is a subject to threat,so there are so many reasons of threat that nobody knows why…
So in our(?) we are a family that is known in our community that could be ok,our house shows that we are(?) my father is an engineer,my mother is a doctor. So we are people who can pay(?) that's why(?)
At that time my father and my brother left to Jordan for some reasons or the other (?) obstacles(?)to enter to Jordan so my father was permitted to enter Jordan but he had to leave my brother to return back to Iraq,so my father wouldn’t let him go back so he returned with my brother again.
L.H: So did u get to the border?
H.O:Yes
The father and the son got to the border and then came back again..when they came back,I finished my course,but at the same time I was engaged so I have to marry because (it would be?) two years engaged without marriage so I could be registration, several registration, I left Iraq to come to Jordan without my husband..It was on the same day we had been the ceremony the signature I left…So when we decided to come on the bus here to Jordan they allowed again allowed us to enter and my brother didn’t allow him in,so he had to go back to Syria this time and stayed in Syria my husband in his turn decided to join me & again he wasn’t allowed to enter so he joined my brother in Syria ,so we have my brother and my husband in Syria we don’t know why is this happen,because from the time of the war till the time when we decided to settle in Jordan we were coming three times a year,in every time we were entering without any problem, while the situation became so bad that the choices came(?) that they were not even allow to Jordan.So they had to remain in Syria for 6 months without knowing their destination (?) because they couldn’t back to Iraq where they are threatened or come here because they are not allowed to enter.
So after six months of staying in Syria my brother tried to enter again and in this time he managed to enter but my fiancé was not allowed to enter,my husband then decided to return back to Iraq because by that time he finished his money, he had not to come,he was very(?) to Syria and living, and there was no work opportunity so he returned
Back to Iraq.
L.H: (what is year this now?)?
H.O:That's last year.My husband tried 8 times to join us taking different tools ,by land comes Syria to Jordan but it didn’t work,by land come Baghdad to Jordan also didn’t work,by airport Baghdad to Jordan doesn’t work ,Syria to Jordan ,8 times,8 different times you must flying they didn’t want,and we were so scared because we know that since you go back if any family's member is threatened(?) the rest of the family or like another member of the family as a hostage until they finish the money,so it's not only a threat for him but for any member of his family that was a kidnapped ,he would have to pay or somebody would have to pay instant.
L.H:What was the rashional that they were giving him in turned him away?
H.O:There was nothing acceptable or logical basically young people are not allowed to enter Jordan,young single people,at one stage they put a poster signs and say Iraq(?) between ages 16_36 are not allowed to enter Jordan.
L.H:Is that male and female or just male?
H.O:No it’s just male.so one time they say, we don’t take young people and other time they said there's a stamp refused stamp(?) passport so we cant get in until passing 24 hours,so they remaind in the desert for 24 hours until the time passes he tries again and again ,they were(?)
L.H:could your husband(?)???
H.O:My husband finished accounting same like me he did a project with my brother to have car sales exhibition and was successful business but they had to close it as they left Iraq,so in his business in Iraq every time a car's explosion happens or a car wants explode it was very scary because the American's hammers would come to their exhibition (?) break glass,break defence and with their hammers have to (?) all cars(?) in one of these exhibitions,one of these workshops that cars get(?)
& then they discovered that there's nothing,so typical they would take photos of the place & then they would give us papers and then they tell us go and ask for compensation of the damage cost of course nobody goes there and to go And ask for compensation because we receive a threat of life so we move (?)
L.H:Now can we say that if an individual would to go to U.S head quarters asked for compensation ,someone else in the community would see them and would elaborate with Iraqis and make a threat?????
L.H:We don’t know but currently(?) much money to be existent,it comes to our friends,making a beautiful vella,very nice place,they furnished it to the top furniture it was top glass(?) they exploded everything ,they damaged everything and then they said :"Oh" it was a mistake,we meant to go to the house behind your house but now you take the mistake itself,,come and take the compensation and after taking photos and everything,come and take your compensation.when this person of our friends went to take his compensation or claim,he received a contact or he was contact to threat ,if you come here again or if you try to come you would be killed,he was trying to explain to those people that I don’t elaborate with them,I just need to take what my(?) are because I know (………..?).
So finally they decided to close the business because it doesn’t work well,this business is basically they were trading cars that belong to individual owners,so if those people come and relay and explode cars and damage cars,break windows,from where they gonna get the money and compensate for the people who leave their cars in the exhibition in the exhibition place,How much do they get instead so they cant afford(?) so they closed the business and finished it.So when I came to Jordan and I gave up hope (her husband) he was thought her fiancé that he's gonna be allowed inside Jordan then we decided to do our wedding in Syria.
So by December 2006 we decided to do our wedding in Syria it was difficult because it was examination's time and my sisters were attending to school that was finally decided to go for the marriage because my mother saw that I was so depressed I was continuing the prime for 6 months,everytime that they say they are coming we come happy and (?) then they end up the lock in a room in an airport,and they are not allowed in.
So usually the way they're treated them,when they came from airport locked in a room 2 by 2 where every other Iraqi is kept in the same room,that not allow to eat,not allow to drink,and not allow to go to toilet.
My brother had to knock their door very hard and he was telling shouting at them,what was the crime that we committed? We have coming to a sister country because we have threatened for death in our own countries,what is the crime that we have committed that we are treated this way(?) respect or turn us with our dignity, we don’t(?)
So finally they allowed an Egyptian worker to be(?) by them to bring them food with all inside (?)
Every time they tried to enter to airport,this was the(?) until one of the cases they were kept for 2 days,until another plane came to take them back to Syria.so when they came by road then they would be stayed in the desert where there's no food or water,so finally when I went to Syria we had to do the wedding in 4 days so that my mother and my sisters go back and I remained in Syria for 6 months.
I did become pregnant during 6 months and it was very bad for me to stay in Syria since there's no more work ,again we tried to enter Amman but they didn’t allow him in.
L.H:…………………………????
H.O:It doesn’t go this way,even she has a resident,even (?) is Jordanian,we come to the border they would allow me in but not him.so he had to go back to Iraq and I went to work and I came to Amman because I was very much disturbing with my pregnancy.
L.H:what work would he do?
L.H:Ah ok he went to work….ok
H.O:He stood not get a job in Iraq because work opportunities in Baghdad are dominated by people who are taking whole of the positions who bring only the relatives and people who they know to work.
I decided that I should try my opportunity to work because iam the kind of a person who cant sit at home,and iam a designer so I don’t want to stop,I couldn’t do faster the opportunities ,so I don’t know where iam settling yet,so I didn’t want to commit,then I tried to find a job for opportunities because I like continue and make caricature figures so I started looking for a work in newspapers and children's magazines, I decided to take my line as to quit Iraqi's situation and caricature figures
L.H:Are they gravity nobles, or cartoon nobles?
H.O:Cartoons but only about Iraqi's situations
L.H:right that's good,so even when I was in Iraq I was doing for the newspaper al Siasy and al Watan,I was doing caricatures figures about these situations in Iraq.
L.H:so would u doing political cartoons?
H.O:Yes
L.H:Could I see some of themplz?
H.O: yes, but she doesn’t have them now but she is sttending to send us by email..
L.H:Could I use them in this production?
H.O:yes,
L.H:Thank you
L.H:Do you have something else?
H.O:( ……………?………….)
L.H:what about the birth of your child? Is he there for that?Has he seen his son?
H.O:the problem is that if I tried to go to Syria,I will might not be able to enter again but if he comes to Syria (?) because Iraqi are rejected now no matter what they do.
So he finalley asked me to come to Iraq,so that he could see his son ,but I'm so scared to pick my baby there,because iam not sure we can provide(?) care for him,iam not even sure(?) I cant imagine in his(?) iam not sure of….
Iam asking her marriage ia a love story so they are a kind of bomb when(?)
She said that he was even worried about me having my pregnancy in Iraq because of the(?) so when I had a neighbor ,he was so afraid that my neighbor would be on time(…?.) ( I couldn’t hear the rest of the answer and the question after)
H.O:You could call the emergency but then they either come or they don’t.So my husband's friend's wife she was a (labor?)and when she couldn't go through the (?) ,she had to wait 6 hours and the(?) was over.
Besides other obstacles for example my blood's tipe is negative,so I need to take an injection,so iam not sure we will find that injection so he was so scared that I (?)
(?) my baby when I was in the neighbor hood there's noway that I could take my baby to Iraq and I cant stay in Syria without a job,so I don’t know what is the end of this story.So finally I agreed with one of my colleague students to try to get my certificate's graduation's certificate from my university because then I would probably be able to apply for studies abroad here I couldn’t do that because the equivalent to my studies would be interior design and my (?) is not interior design,,,industrial design specific.
So I would have form another attempt is to take my certificate and tour in the embassies on the hope that somebody would accept to give me approval for studies,I know this is very dare opportunities because all the Iraqi people are rejected for(?????)
L.H:Iam so sorry
H.O:No it's ok
L.H:No it's not ok,it's horrible.,please could u say your name?
H.O: H.A.N.I.A…..O.B.A.I.D.I
So finally I decided to take my graduate (?) for embassies hope and wish for the German embassy , for an example to give me opportunity to study.this is my last hope..but because when I called the professor ,the tutor who had promised me that I should take this scholarship in Germany when I come back to the embassy…
I told her about what happened,she told me that the professor who promised you this himself received a threat and he left the university to go to study teach in (?) college.
L.H:Was the professor(?)?
H.O: He had told us this before although he went to Germany and prepared for us to go and do our scholarships there but he did tell us that he doesn’t expect to stay because of this subject of threat,like any other doctors who were teaching in the university…He went to (?) university because the situation is better there,so I lost hope,I will try again but I know that nothing will happen but I have to try.
L.H: are you still making ( political cartoons?)?
H.O: yes but iam free (?)
L.H: So u don’t study or work?
H.O: *( I didn’t understand the answer well)
L.H: where do u see yourself after 5 years ( graduation)?
H.O:* ( again couldn’t here it)
(………..?......) options to go back to Iraq with my baby!! No, absolutely no..
H.O:In Amman no way because how long (is he left)* without seeing his son?
So if he goes to Syria,he may be allowed to enter or not (?) and if I want to see him ,I don’t know if I would be allowed back to Jordan.
L.H: Is there anything new you want to tell the people in the west to understand better the situation there,the situation of Iraq?
H.O: Not all the Iraqis are bad people, so we didn’t do anything wrong to be so much blames by western countries as well as Arab countries.
Many(?) Iraqis were harmed by the distorted image that was presented about Iraq….
( the last two lines were not so clear) so sorry *
Saturday, December 22, 2007
Nadima Ibraheem/Hala's mom
Interview with Nadima Ibraheem (N.I.)
Interviewer: Laura Hamblin (L.H.)
Translator: Hala Al-Sarraf
Transcriber: Reine El-wer
East Amman 11/18/2007
L.H.: Name and age.
N.I.: My name is Nadima Ibraheem Kadem and I am 76 years old.
L.H.: Where are you from?
N.I.: I am from Baghdad.
L.H.: I would like you to tell us your story, and begin with what your life was like before, during Saddam's regime, during the fall, the war, how did you come here?
N.I.: During the time of Saddam we lived a life with very low pension salary; we used to take what is equivalent to 5 JDs, which wasn’t enough for buying a tray of eggs. We were not allowed to travel for 20 years during Saddam time. And then, a start of a wave of thieves and criminals in houses, and we witnessed a wave of raiding houses criminals, killing people in their houses and stealing their property. It happened to me personally, twice they raided my house. I was living n my house alone and I have a basement with windows entering to the basement, they broke the bars on the windows of the basement, they went to the basement but I had built the entrance of the basement to the rest of the house so they did not manage to come to me.
L.H.: Who is "they" and what is the time period?
N.I.: It was the time like 3-4 years before -she calls it revolution- against him, against Saddam, by 3-4 years and then it became very dangerous for me to live alone.
L.H.: What year are you speaking of? What time during?
N.I.: 2000. The next time they came to my house it was from the sealing, where they tried to make a hole in the sealing of the bathroom. My neighbors felt that and they started shooting in the air, and then they were afraid and escaped.
Since that time, I left my house and my furniture, and until today I never lived n my house again. Then I came to El-karrada area where I lived with my daughter. I have nobody. And then the Bush war started. I escaped with a family, with whom I rented a car to the Syrian border. At that time we rented the car to go to Syria, we paid 1000 dollars for the car rent. Just as we arrived at the check point in Traibeel, they closed the border and said nobody is allowed to leave the country anymore. Then we wanted to stay at the border country but we were told that they are going to bomb the border point so we had to leave. Then we went to a city called Heet. We hid with a family; I was paying them for my food and sleeping in their house. Then the American planes raided the Heet post office. I contacted my brothers who were in Baghdad from the neighbors' house and told me to come back because it is going to take long-this war- and you will not be able to enter Baghdad. Then when I came back, I went to Al Amerya area where my son lives. I stayed in his house, sleeping in the family room, and because of the severity of the bombs, the doors would open at night with unlock because of the severity of the noise. Then I was very scared, I escaped from Al Amerya. I went to another area called Al Athamya where I stayed with my brother and then I hid in his house but the attacks were very severe in that area as well, we were hiding in one of the corners but the glass was breaking every time and we were very scared. We were not able to walk in full; we were crawling on hands and legs. Then I wanted to go to my sister's house in Karrada, that house was neighboring Saddam Hussein's palace. And of course, there were many tanks near Saddam`s palace and when we approaching, the tanks would start pointing at us to kill us. Then they were raiding the palaces of Saddam. Then I was alone in the house so I escaped from inside the house to go and hide in the garden, because I was afraid that the house will be demolished on me. As soon as the bombs stopped, thieves started again, people start robbing Saddam`s palace and other houses where people have evacuated their houses. There was me and a Christian neighbor that I have next door. We were the only people left in the neighborhood. I lived like this for about a month or so, I was alone.
L.H.: How did you get your food?
N.I.: my neighbor was able to walk and go out to sec which ever of the shops that were open, she would bring us food to eat, of course electricity, they hit electricity so we were cut from electricity, accordingly all food we had in the refrigerator and freezers got rotten and we had to get rid of it. In one of the cases, I had to call my brothers house that lives in a different area, to bring me some food, because I was running out of food. They took risk by going in front of tanks to bring me food. We had no electricity and there was no water so the water source we had was basically bringing it from the river, Bush is not good.
L.H.: Sorry
N.I.: And those who came later are even worse. So again we had killing. So what they did is to increase salary, so now my salary has become 100 000 Iraqi Dinar which is equivalent to 80 dollars.
L.H.: Which salary you mean?
N.I.: Pension
N.I.: And 80 dollars are not enough at all.
L.H.: Tell me about your husband and your marriage and your children?
N.I.: My husband was a pharmacist, and I have a daughter and a son. And I have a son from my previous husband who was a physician. My children don’t know me now coz they left their houses, they left their furniture everything, and went to Emirates, they are afraid of being killed.
L.H.: Where are your children now?
N.I.: My sons are now in Emirates, in Abu-Dhabi and Dubai.
L.H.: What do they do there?
N.I.: They don’t me, they don’t send to me and even my pension, I applied here to receive my pension in Jordan, and for that I'd pay 5 JD`s every month they bring it, and now it's been over two months, and I didn’t receive my pension yet. My husband has properties like shops and small house which were rented by, but people now are occupying those premises without paying any rent. Now that I want to go to Baghdad to go and receive my pension from there, but then if I go I have to pay all the penalties for the Jordanian government which is 1.5 Dinar for everyday and its 45 JDs every month. I can't leave the country coz then I have to pay all the penalties at the border, so I can't go to Baghdad.
L.H.: Tell us about your living situation now?
N.I.: now my health is not good coz I always have high blood pressure and have problems with my joints, my knees, I have swelled ankles and can not walk. So look at my teeth, I can't go to the dentist because he charges very high here. I can't eat properly.
L.H.: What do you eat?
N.I.: I basically put the bread in a source, so I have to take food in source to eat it or sometimes, I just swallow food which is not good. Even my eyes, now if you check my blood pressure you can see how high it is.
L.H.: What was life like when you were a young woman?
N.I.: I had a beautiful life, with my husband my life beautiful, when he died it was never the same. I've been to England, 4 times, I've been to France, 3 times, to Emirates, Cairo, Turkey. I wanted to visit the states, I wanted to see my daughter but they did not give me Visa, I really wanted to see the US, I wanted to meet Oprah because I love her, I like her show.
L.H.: I'll tell you what I'm going to do; I'll send a copy from this tape to Oprah.
N.I.: Oh, I wish
L.H.: Yes, that’s nice, I love Oprah too.
N.I.: I watch Oprah everyday, and l love Dr.Phil and Rachel Ray. God is generous.
L.H.: What do you miss the most about Iraq?
N.I.: Frankly, I don’t miss anything in Iraq, I only miss my place in Baghdad that I miss, and basically if I go there and get my pension my money, that’s it.
L.H.: What do you think has to happen in order to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: I wish that our relation with the states becomes very good so that we have peace, I want to have a good relation with the US. I want an evacuated government; we don’t want a government of thieves and corrupted.
L.H.: Do you think the situation in Iraq would improve or stay about the same or get worse if the US military left?
N.I.: If we remain in the hands of Iraqis we will not be good.
L.H.: Why is that do you think?
N.I.: The way I see it is that Americans are protecting us, so some how they chase the terrorists and protect us.
L.H.: Do you really believe this?
N.I.: Maybe the Americans are protecting us. I wouldn’t know but maybe they will protect us.
L.H.: What is your greatest joy?
N.I.: My biggest joy in life is to see my grandson well, and for my granddaughter who is a student to be graduated from the United States. The people of America are good. I love America.
L.H.: Even though they are occupying your country right now?
N.I.: I love Americans because they are loyal to their country, and straights in their dealings. What have we see from our oil resources that we have? We have seen nothing good from our resources of petrol. The government is taking advantage of all the recourses, if it wasn’t for my daughter who is supporting me where would I go? I wouldn’t be able to live in Baghdad. It is very hot and no water. Nobody is to serve or aid me, how can I live in Baghdad? I've been here for a whole year.
L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to return to Baghdad?
N.I.: of course. I would go to Baghdad, my country, my city, but only if there is security, no killing and if there is electricity. Then I can live there. Sometimes I wonder what should I do with myself, should ask for refugee status in Jordan but I think what If they don’t let me go out again, or let me get inside the country again.
L.H.: Why are you afraid?
N.I.: If I ask for refugee status, so they won't make me pay 1.5 JDs per day, it's difficult, 45 JDs every month.
L.H.: Are you able to get medical care in Jordan?
N.I.: No. medical treatment here is private and expensive. I went to a doctor for surgery asked for 15000 dollars. How on earth can I pay this money?! The name of this doctor is Basel El-Masry; he wants 15000 US dollars to do the surgery for my knees. I am still strong, I wash my clothes, I cook everyday, I clean, I can do everything myself.
L.H.: I had some of your food and it is delicious
N.I.: come tomorrow or any day you want and I'll cook for you delicious food. Other people that come here love my food. Why don’t you come stay here instead of a hotel? We have nobody. My son-in-law is in Iraq and my granddaughter is in Iraq. She did her training in Jordan and her other medical training in the United States, but when she went back to Baghdad medical school they didn’t approve her training in these countries , they asked her to do the training in Baghdad so that’s why she went back to Baghdad and her father is with her.
L.H.: How much longer does your granddaughter have?
N.I.: She still has 25 days to go.
L.H.: And then she will come here?
N.I.: It will take her about two months to come here.
L.H.: Can you show a picture of you and your husband?
N.I.: Here, I was pregnant with my son then, he was born in 1958.
L.H.: How was your life at that time, in the 1950`s?
N.I.: At that time I wasn’t veiled, I would be wearing strapless, we went to clubs and parties and traveling, and this was my life there.
L.H.: Lovely, but what have to happen for there to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: We have to have fair nice international relationships with other countries; we must have good relations so that we have peace. Nobody should interfere in our internal affairs. They should help the people of Iraq. With the mercy of God we will have peace in Iraq.
L.H.: what do you think is the biggest thing that is preventing peace right now?
N.I.: Hopefully we would have a better government in the United States that can give us a hand. GOD is merciful. We are peaceful people, we used to love Jewish people that lived in Iraq, and we love our Christian community. When I was a baby, I was breast fed by a Christian woman. When I was a little girl, we lived in an area where our Jewish neighbors would ask me as a young kid to go and light a candle on Saturdays. I used to be the one who light the candles. We are peaceful, we (?) relations with Jewish people and Christians all around us at that time.
When my daughter was going through a heart surgery in the States and she was alone there, I dreamt -and I was alone here, she was alone there- there was a cross next to her, and JESUS was standing next to her. So when I had that dream, I woke up in the morning and I told my family, don’t worry she will be safe and from that day I stopped crying. So every 15th of August which is the day I cook this special dish it's called (Dolma), and I send it to the church in Bab El-Mo`atham because it is the day of Virgin Mary and it is her religious day. So this is how we are. And I am a Muslim thank God, but I don’t have any discrimination, and I don’t have any sectarian feeling toward one sect or another. Thank God.
L.H.: Is there anything, any special message you would like to give to people in the west about what it is like to be an Iraqi woman now in your situation?
N.I.: I would love in my age to be a friend to everybody; I'd love to be a friend to Israeli people, or the American people. For me I don’t have any negative feeling even if that person is Israeli, in my age, I have no discrimination in this age.
L.H.: With all of your life experience and having your country going through several wars during your lifetime, what advice would you give to the next generation?
N.I.: In my life I witnessed the war of Rasheed Aali Jeelani, and this is like ages ago, 50 years ago. I witnessed the war with the British people. And I witnessed all the battles with Palestine and all revolutions; I remember all the wars even the 14th of July but the worse war I saw were both Bushes wars; the one of the Kuwait and this one is even more powerful on us; Bush the father and the son, they hurt us a lot. But this one is the worse.
L.H.: I'm sorry. What was the specific event during the delivery of your son when you were pregnant?
N.I.: It was the revolution against the king. On that day was my due, so they put me in a car to take me to the hospital to deliver, and in the street I saw the people in demonstrations and they were carrying the hand and the leg of the king's cousin Abdel Elah, so I was so scared. I went back home and they brought midwives for me to help me at home deliver my son. The people killed King Faisal, they killed the whole family.
L.H.: What advice would you give?
N.I.: My advice to the youth is not to interfere in politics, only studying and educating themselves and not interfere in politics. For those who want to interfere in politics, they should work on the principles of keeping good relations with the neighbors and with other countries.
L.H.: What is your best memory?
N.I.: I was very happy when I had my daughter, as a girl because I didn’t have girls, so I was so happy to have her.
L.H.: What is the greatest loss you experienced?
N.I.: I lost her father, I lost my husband. After that my whole life was in disturbance, there was no stability afterwards.
L.H.: How did he die?
N.I.: He had stomach cancer. He died out of cancer, he lived only one month and then he died it was sudden
L.H.: So how many years did he have?
N.I.: He was 64 then. Its 27 years so far.
L.H.: What are some of those challenges that you faced as a widow?
N.I.: Being alone is the most difficult part. I was living alone, its hard.
L.H.: How did you support your family?
N.I.: By that time they finished their education. At the beginning of my family, I was sawing and making dresses. But after my husband died, I was basically living on the rents that I receive from the premises we have and on the pension, although it was very modest, but we lived contented with that. Life was reasonable then, it was cheap, we didn’t witness as much inflation as we do now. At times we were renting a whole house for 5 Dinars. Now nobody is paying the rent, everybody is paying in the premises, we have free of charge.
L.H.: So you have no control over your property?
N.I.: In Iraq there is no dominance of law, there is no respect for the government, the people do not respect the government and therefore there is no application of rules and regulations.
L.H.: Is there something you hope to do, something special you hope to do before you leave this life?
N.I.: I wish to go to the states; this is what I want to do before I go. Since the time of Saddam, I wanted to go to the states as a tourist, but Saddam did not allow us to travel so I've seen London, also Russia, I did not see it, but I don’t like it. A tourist trip to London costs a hundred dinars only, so that’s why I managed to see all these countries, I went 4 times to Saudi Arabia, I've been to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, in all I went with my husband in tourists.
L.H.: Thank you
Interviewer: Laura Hamblin (L.H.)
Translator: Hala Al-Sarraf
Transcriber: Reine El-wer
East Amman 11/18/2007
L.H.: Name and age.
N.I.: My name is Nadima Ibraheem Kadem and I am 76 years old.
L.H.: Where are you from?
N.I.: I am from Baghdad.
L.H.: I would like you to tell us your story, and begin with what your life was like before, during Saddam's regime, during the fall, the war, how did you come here?
N.I.: During the time of Saddam we lived a life with very low pension salary; we used to take what is equivalent to 5 JDs, which wasn’t enough for buying a tray of eggs. We were not allowed to travel for 20 years during Saddam time. And then, a start of a wave of thieves and criminals in houses, and we witnessed a wave of raiding houses criminals, killing people in their houses and stealing their property. It happened to me personally, twice they raided my house. I was living n my house alone and I have a basement with windows entering to the basement, they broke the bars on the windows of the basement, they went to the basement but I had built the entrance of the basement to the rest of the house so they did not manage to come to me.
L.H.: Who is "they" and what is the time period?
N.I.: It was the time like 3-4 years before -she calls it revolution- against him, against Saddam, by 3-4 years and then it became very dangerous for me to live alone.
L.H.: What year are you speaking of? What time during?
N.I.: 2000. The next time they came to my house it was from the sealing, where they tried to make a hole in the sealing of the bathroom. My neighbors felt that and they started shooting in the air, and then they were afraid and escaped.
Since that time, I left my house and my furniture, and until today I never lived n my house again. Then I came to El-karrada area where I lived with my daughter. I have nobody. And then the Bush war started. I escaped with a family, with whom I rented a car to the Syrian border. At that time we rented the car to go to Syria, we paid 1000 dollars for the car rent. Just as we arrived at the check point in Traibeel, they closed the border and said nobody is allowed to leave the country anymore. Then we wanted to stay at the border country but we were told that they are going to bomb the border point so we had to leave. Then we went to a city called Heet. We hid with a family; I was paying them for my food and sleeping in their house. Then the American planes raided the Heet post office. I contacted my brothers who were in Baghdad from the neighbors' house and told me to come back because it is going to take long-this war- and you will not be able to enter Baghdad. Then when I came back, I went to Al Amerya area where my son lives. I stayed in his house, sleeping in the family room, and because of the severity of the bombs, the doors would open at night with unlock because of the severity of the noise. Then I was very scared, I escaped from Al Amerya. I went to another area called Al Athamya where I stayed with my brother and then I hid in his house but the attacks were very severe in that area as well, we were hiding in one of the corners but the glass was breaking every time and we were very scared. We were not able to walk in full; we were crawling on hands and legs. Then I wanted to go to my sister's house in Karrada, that house was neighboring Saddam Hussein's palace. And of course, there were many tanks near Saddam`s palace and when we approaching, the tanks would start pointing at us to kill us. Then they were raiding the palaces of Saddam. Then I was alone in the house so I escaped from inside the house to go and hide in the garden, because I was afraid that the house will be demolished on me. As soon as the bombs stopped, thieves started again, people start robbing Saddam`s palace and other houses where people have evacuated their houses. There was me and a Christian neighbor that I have next door. We were the only people left in the neighborhood. I lived like this for about a month or so, I was alone.
L.H.: How did you get your food?
N.I.: my neighbor was able to walk and go out to sec which ever of the shops that were open, she would bring us food to eat, of course electricity, they hit electricity so we were cut from electricity, accordingly all food we had in the refrigerator and freezers got rotten and we had to get rid of it. In one of the cases, I had to call my brothers house that lives in a different area, to bring me some food, because I was running out of food. They took risk by going in front of tanks to bring me food. We had no electricity and there was no water so the water source we had was basically bringing it from the river, Bush is not good.
L.H.: Sorry
N.I.: And those who came later are even worse. So again we had killing. So what they did is to increase salary, so now my salary has become 100 000 Iraqi Dinar which is equivalent to 80 dollars.
L.H.: Which salary you mean?
N.I.: Pension
N.I.: And 80 dollars are not enough at all.
L.H.: Tell me about your husband and your marriage and your children?
N.I.: My husband was a pharmacist, and I have a daughter and a son. And I have a son from my previous husband who was a physician. My children don’t know me now coz they left their houses, they left their furniture everything, and went to Emirates, they are afraid of being killed.
L.H.: Where are your children now?
N.I.: My sons are now in Emirates, in Abu-Dhabi and Dubai.
L.H.: What do they do there?
N.I.: They don’t me, they don’t send to me and even my pension, I applied here to receive my pension in Jordan, and for that I'd pay 5 JD`s every month they bring it, and now it's been over two months, and I didn’t receive my pension yet. My husband has properties like shops and small house which were rented by, but people now are occupying those premises without paying any rent. Now that I want to go to Baghdad to go and receive my pension from there, but then if I go I have to pay all the penalties for the Jordanian government which is 1.5 Dinar for everyday and its 45 JDs every month. I can't leave the country coz then I have to pay all the penalties at the border, so I can't go to Baghdad.
L.H.: Tell us about your living situation now?
N.I.: now my health is not good coz I always have high blood pressure and have problems with my joints, my knees, I have swelled ankles and can not walk. So look at my teeth, I can't go to the dentist because he charges very high here. I can't eat properly.
L.H.: What do you eat?
N.I.: I basically put the bread in a source, so I have to take food in source to eat it or sometimes, I just swallow food which is not good. Even my eyes, now if you check my blood pressure you can see how high it is.
L.H.: What was life like when you were a young woman?
N.I.: I had a beautiful life, with my husband my life beautiful, when he died it was never the same. I've been to England, 4 times, I've been to France, 3 times, to Emirates, Cairo, Turkey. I wanted to visit the states, I wanted to see my daughter but they did not give me Visa, I really wanted to see the US, I wanted to meet Oprah because I love her, I like her show.
L.H.: I'll tell you what I'm going to do; I'll send a copy from this tape to Oprah.
N.I.: Oh, I wish
L.H.: Yes, that’s nice, I love Oprah too.
N.I.: I watch Oprah everyday, and l love Dr.Phil and Rachel Ray. God is generous.
L.H.: What do you miss the most about Iraq?
N.I.: Frankly, I don’t miss anything in Iraq, I only miss my place in Baghdad that I miss, and basically if I go there and get my pension my money, that’s it.
L.H.: What do you think has to happen in order to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: I wish that our relation with the states becomes very good so that we have peace, I want to have a good relation with the US. I want an evacuated government; we don’t want a government of thieves and corrupted.
L.H.: Do you think the situation in Iraq would improve or stay about the same or get worse if the US military left?
N.I.: If we remain in the hands of Iraqis we will not be good.
L.H.: Why is that do you think?
N.I.: The way I see it is that Americans are protecting us, so some how they chase the terrorists and protect us.
L.H.: Do you really believe this?
N.I.: Maybe the Americans are protecting us. I wouldn’t know but maybe they will protect us.
L.H.: What is your greatest joy?
N.I.: My biggest joy in life is to see my grandson well, and for my granddaughter who is a student to be graduated from the United States. The people of America are good. I love America.
L.H.: Even though they are occupying your country right now?
N.I.: I love Americans because they are loyal to their country, and straights in their dealings. What have we see from our oil resources that we have? We have seen nothing good from our resources of petrol. The government is taking advantage of all the recourses, if it wasn’t for my daughter who is supporting me where would I go? I wouldn’t be able to live in Baghdad. It is very hot and no water. Nobody is to serve or aid me, how can I live in Baghdad? I've been here for a whole year.
L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to return to Baghdad?
N.I.: of course. I would go to Baghdad, my country, my city, but only if there is security, no killing and if there is electricity. Then I can live there. Sometimes I wonder what should I do with myself, should ask for refugee status in Jordan but I think what If they don’t let me go out again, or let me get inside the country again.
L.H.: Why are you afraid?
N.I.: If I ask for refugee status, so they won't make me pay 1.5 JDs per day, it's difficult, 45 JDs every month.
L.H.: Are you able to get medical care in Jordan?
N.I.: No. medical treatment here is private and expensive. I went to a doctor for surgery asked for 15000 dollars. How on earth can I pay this money?! The name of this doctor is Basel El-Masry; he wants 15000 US dollars to do the surgery for my knees. I am still strong, I wash my clothes, I cook everyday, I clean, I can do everything myself.
L.H.: I had some of your food and it is delicious
N.I.: come tomorrow or any day you want and I'll cook for you delicious food. Other people that come here love my food. Why don’t you come stay here instead of a hotel? We have nobody. My son-in-law is in Iraq and my granddaughter is in Iraq. She did her training in Jordan and her other medical training in the United States, but when she went back to Baghdad medical school they didn’t approve her training in these countries , they asked her to do the training in Baghdad so that’s why she went back to Baghdad and her father is with her.
L.H.: How much longer does your granddaughter have?
N.I.: She still has 25 days to go.
L.H.: And then she will come here?
N.I.: It will take her about two months to come here.
L.H.: Can you show a picture of you and your husband?
N.I.: Here, I was pregnant with my son then, he was born in 1958.
L.H.: How was your life at that time, in the 1950`s?
N.I.: At that time I wasn’t veiled, I would be wearing strapless, we went to clubs and parties and traveling, and this was my life there.
L.H.: Lovely, but what have to happen for there to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: We have to have fair nice international relationships with other countries; we must have good relations so that we have peace. Nobody should interfere in our internal affairs. They should help the people of Iraq. With the mercy of God we will have peace in Iraq.
L.H.: what do you think is the biggest thing that is preventing peace right now?
N.I.: Hopefully we would have a better government in the United States that can give us a hand. GOD is merciful. We are peaceful people, we used to love Jewish people that lived in Iraq, and we love our Christian community. When I was a baby, I was breast fed by a Christian woman. When I was a little girl, we lived in an area where our Jewish neighbors would ask me as a young kid to go and light a candle on Saturdays. I used to be the one who light the candles. We are peaceful, we (?) relations with Jewish people and Christians all around us at that time.
When my daughter was going through a heart surgery in the States and she was alone there, I dreamt -and I was alone here, she was alone there- there was a cross next to her, and JESUS was standing next to her. So when I had that dream, I woke up in the morning and I told my family, don’t worry she will be safe and from that day I stopped crying. So every 15th of August which is the day I cook this special dish it's called (Dolma), and I send it to the church in Bab El-Mo`atham because it is the day of Virgin Mary and it is her religious day. So this is how we are. And I am a Muslim thank God, but I don’t have any discrimination, and I don’t have any sectarian feeling toward one sect or another. Thank God.
L.H.: Is there anything, any special message you would like to give to people in the west about what it is like to be an Iraqi woman now in your situation?
N.I.: I would love in my age to be a friend to everybody; I'd love to be a friend to Israeli people, or the American people. For me I don’t have any negative feeling even if that person is Israeli, in my age, I have no discrimination in this age.
L.H.: With all of your life experience and having your country going through several wars during your lifetime, what advice would you give to the next generation?
N.I.: In my life I witnessed the war of Rasheed Aali Jeelani, and this is like ages ago, 50 years ago. I witnessed the war with the British people. And I witnessed all the battles with Palestine and all revolutions; I remember all the wars even the 14th of July but the worse war I saw were both Bushes wars; the one of the Kuwait and this one is even more powerful on us; Bush the father and the son, they hurt us a lot. But this one is the worse.
L.H.: I'm sorry. What was the specific event during the delivery of your son when you were pregnant?
N.I.: It was the revolution against the king. On that day was my due, so they put me in a car to take me to the hospital to deliver, and in the street I saw the people in demonstrations and they were carrying the hand and the leg of the king's cousin Abdel Elah, so I was so scared. I went back home and they brought midwives for me to help me at home deliver my son. The people killed King Faisal, they killed the whole family.
L.H.: What advice would you give?
N.I.: My advice to the youth is not to interfere in politics, only studying and educating themselves and not interfere in politics. For those who want to interfere in politics, they should work on the principles of keeping good relations with the neighbors and with other countries.
L.H.: What is your best memory?
N.I.: I was very happy when I had my daughter, as a girl because I didn’t have girls, so I was so happy to have her.
L.H.: What is the greatest loss you experienced?
N.I.: I lost her father, I lost my husband. After that my whole life was in disturbance, there was no stability afterwards.
L.H.: How did he die?
N.I.: He had stomach cancer. He died out of cancer, he lived only one month and then he died it was sudden
L.H.: So how many years did he have?
N.I.: He was 64 then. Its 27 years so far.
L.H.: What are some of those challenges that you faced as a widow?
N.I.: Being alone is the most difficult part. I was living alone, its hard.
L.H.: How did you support your family?
N.I.: By that time they finished their education. At the beginning of my family, I was sawing and making dresses. But after my husband died, I was basically living on the rents that I receive from the premises we have and on the pension, although it was very modest, but we lived contented with that. Life was reasonable then, it was cheap, we didn’t witness as much inflation as we do now. At times we were renting a whole house for 5 Dinars. Now nobody is paying the rent, everybody is paying in the premises, we have free of charge.
L.H.: So you have no control over your property?
N.I.: In Iraq there is no dominance of law, there is no respect for the government, the people do not respect the government and therefore there is no application of rules and regulations.
L.H.: Is there something you hope to do, something special you hope to do before you leave this life?
N.I.: I wish to go to the states; this is what I want to do before I go. Since the time of Saddam, I wanted to go to the states as a tourist, but Saddam did not allow us to travel so I've seen London, also Russia, I did not see it, but I don’t like it. A tourist trip to London costs a hundred dinars only, so that’s why I managed to see all these countries, I went 4 times to Saudi Arabia, I've been to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, in all I went with my husband in tourists.
L.H.: Thank you
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