Nadima Ibraheem/Hala's mom

Interview with Nadima Ibraheem (N.I.)
Interviewer: Laura Hamblin (L.H.)
Translator: Hala Al-Sarraf
Transcriber: Reine El-wer
East Amman 11/18/2007

L.H.: Name and age.
N.I.: My name is Nadima Ibraheem Kadem and I am 76 years old.

L.H.: Where are you from?
N.I.: I am from Baghdad.

L.H.: I would like you to tell us your story, and begin with what your life was like before, during Saddam's regime, during the fall, the war, how did you come here?
N.I.: During the time of Saddam we lived a life with very low pension salary; we used to take what is equivalent to 5 JDs, which wasn’t enough for buying a tray of eggs. We were not allowed to travel for 20 years during Saddam time. And then, a start of a wave of thieves and criminals in houses, and we witnessed a wave of raiding houses criminals, killing people in their houses and stealing their property. It happened to me personally, twice they raided my house. I was living n my house alone and I have a basement with windows entering to the basement, they broke the bars on the windows of the basement, they went to the basement but I had built the entrance of the basement to the rest of the house so they did not manage to come to me.

L.H.: Who is "they" and what is the time period?
N.I.: It was the time like 3-4 years before -she calls it revolution- against him, against Saddam, by 3-4 years and then it became very dangerous for me to live alone.

L.H.: What year are you speaking of? What time during?
N.I.: 2000. The next time they came to my house it was from the sealing, where they tried to make a hole in the sealing of the bathroom. My neighbors felt that and they started shooting in the air, and then they were afraid and escaped.
Since that time, I left my house and my furniture, and until today I never lived n my house again. Then I came to El-karrada area where I lived with my daughter. I have nobody. And then the Bush war started. I escaped with a family, with whom I rented a car to the Syrian border. At that time we rented the car to go to Syria, we paid 1000 dollars for the car rent. Just as we arrived at the check point in Traibeel, they closed the border and said nobody is allowed to leave the country anymore. Then we wanted to stay at the border country but we were told that they are going to bomb the border point so we had to leave. Then we went to a city called Heet. We hid with a family; I was paying them for my food and sleeping in their house. Then the American planes raided the Heet post office. I contacted my brothers who were in Baghdad from the neighbors' house and told me to come back because it is going to take long-this war- and you will not be able to enter Baghdad. Then when I came back, I went to Al Amerya area where my son lives. I stayed in his house, sleeping in the family room, and because of the severity of the bombs, the doors would open at night with unlock because of the severity of the noise. Then I was very scared, I escaped from Al Amerya. I went to another area called Al Athamya where I stayed with my brother and then I hid in his house but the attacks were very severe in that area as well, we were hiding in one of the corners but the glass was breaking every time and we were very scared. We were not able to walk in full; we were crawling on hands and legs. Then I wanted to go to my sister's house in Karrada, that house was neighboring Saddam Hussein's palace. And of course, there were many tanks near Saddam`s palace and when we approaching, the tanks would start pointing at us to kill us. Then they were raiding the palaces of Saddam. Then I was alone in the house so I escaped from inside the house to go and hide in the garden, because I was afraid that the house will be demolished on me. As soon as the bombs stopped, thieves started again, people start robbing Saddam`s palace and other houses where people have evacuated their houses. There was me and a Christian neighbor that I have next door. We were the only people left in the neighborhood. I lived like this for about a month or so, I was alone.
L.H.: How did you get your food?
N.I.: my neighbor was able to walk and go out to sec which ever of the shops that were open, she would bring us food to eat, of course electricity, they hit electricity so we were cut from electricity, accordingly all food we had in the refrigerator and freezers got rotten and we had to get rid of it. In one of the cases, I had to call my brothers house that lives in a different area, to bring me some food, because I was running out of food. They took risk by going in front of tanks to bring me food. We had no electricity and there was no water so the water source we had was basically bringing it from the river, Bush is not good.

L.H.: Sorry
N.I.: And those who came later are even worse. So again we had killing. So what they did is to increase salary, so now my salary has become 100 000 Iraqi Dinar which is equivalent to 80 dollars.

L.H.: Which salary you mean?
N.I.: Pension
N.I.: And 80 dollars are not enough at all.

L.H.: Tell me about your husband and your marriage and your children?
N.I.: My husband was a pharmacist, and I have a daughter and a son. And I have a son from my previous husband who was a physician. My children don’t know me now coz they left their houses, they left their furniture everything, and went to Emirates, they are afraid of being killed.

L.H.: Where are your children now?
N.I.: My sons are now in Emirates, in Abu-Dhabi and Dubai.

L.H.: What do they do there?
N.I.: They don’t me, they don’t send to me and even my pension, I applied here to receive my pension in Jordan, and for that I'd pay 5 JD`s every month they bring it, and now it's been over two months, and I didn’t receive my pension yet. My husband has properties like shops and small house which were rented by, but people now are occupying those premises without paying any rent. Now that I want to go to Baghdad to go and receive my pension from there, but then if I go I have to pay all the penalties for the Jordanian government which is 1.5 Dinar for everyday and its 45 JDs every month. I can't leave the country coz then I have to pay all the penalties at the border, so I can't go to Baghdad.

L.H.: Tell us about your living situation now?
N.I.: now my health is not good coz I always have high blood pressure and have problems with my joints, my knees, I have swelled ankles and can not walk. So look at my teeth, I can't go to the dentist because he charges very high here. I can't eat properly.

L.H.: What do you eat?
N.I.: I basically put the bread in a source, so I have to take food in source to eat it or sometimes, I just swallow food which is not good. Even my eyes, now if you check my blood pressure you can see how high it is.

L.H.: What was life like when you were a young woman?
N.I.: I had a beautiful life, with my husband my life beautiful, when he died it was never the same. I've been to England, 4 times, I've been to France, 3 times, to Emirates, Cairo, Turkey. I wanted to visit the states, I wanted to see my daughter but they did not give me Visa, I really wanted to see the US, I wanted to meet Oprah because I love her, I like her show.

L.H.: I'll tell you what I'm going to do; I'll send a copy from this tape to Oprah.
N.I.: Oh, I wish
L.H.: Yes, that’s nice, I love Oprah too.
N.I.: I watch Oprah everyday, and l love Dr.Phil and Rachel Ray. God is generous.

L.H.: What do you miss the most about Iraq?
N.I.: Frankly, I don’t miss anything in Iraq, I only miss my place in Baghdad that I miss, and basically if I go there and get my pension my money, that’s it.

L.H.: What do you think has to happen in order to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: I wish that our relation with the states becomes very good so that we have peace, I want to have a good relation with the US. I want an evacuated government; we don’t want a government of thieves and corrupted.

L.H.: Do you think the situation in Iraq would improve or stay about the same or get worse if the US military left?
N.I.: If we remain in the hands of Iraqis we will not be good.

L.H.: Why is that do you think?
N.I.: The way I see it is that Americans are protecting us, so some how they chase the terrorists and protect us.

L.H.: Do you really believe this?
N.I.: Maybe the Americans are protecting us. I wouldn’t know but maybe they will protect us.

L.H.: What is your greatest joy?
N.I.: My biggest joy in life is to see my grandson well, and for my granddaughter who is a student to be graduated from the United States. The people of America are good. I love America.

L.H.: Even though they are occupying your country right now?
N.I.: I love Americans because they are loyal to their country, and straights in their dealings. What have we see from our oil resources that we have? We have seen nothing good from our resources of petrol. The government is taking advantage of all the recourses, if it wasn’t for my daughter who is supporting me where would I go? I wouldn’t be able to live in Baghdad. It is very hot and no water. Nobody is to serve or aid me, how can I live in Baghdad? I've been here for a whole year.

L.H.: Do you see yourself ever being able to return to Baghdad?
N.I.: of course. I would go to Baghdad, my country, my city, but only if there is security, no killing and if there is electricity. Then I can live there. Sometimes I wonder what should I do with myself, should ask for refugee status in Jordan but I think what If they don’t let me go out again, or let me get inside the country again.

L.H.: Why are you afraid?
N.I.: If I ask for refugee status, so they won't make me pay 1.5 JDs per day, it's difficult, 45 JDs every month.

L.H.: Are you able to get medical care in Jordan?
N.I.: No. medical treatment here is private and expensive. I went to a doctor for surgery asked for 15000 dollars. How on earth can I pay this money?! The name of this doctor is Basel El-Masry; he wants 15000 US dollars to do the surgery for my knees. I am still strong, I wash my clothes, I cook everyday, I clean, I can do everything myself.

L.H.: I had some of your food and it is delicious
N.I.: come tomorrow or any day you want and I'll cook for you delicious food. Other people that come here love my food. Why don’t you come stay here instead of a hotel? We have nobody. My son-in-law is in Iraq and my granddaughter is in Iraq. She did her training in Jordan and her other medical training in the United States, but when she went back to Baghdad medical school they didn’t approve her training in these countries , they asked her to do the training in Baghdad so that’s why she went back to Baghdad and her father is with her.

L.H.: How much longer does your granddaughter have?
N.I.: She still has 25 days to go.

L.H.: And then she will come here?
N.I.: It will take her about two months to come here.

L.H.: Can you show a picture of you and your husband?
N.I.: Here, I was pregnant with my son then, he was born in 1958.

L.H.: How was your life at that time, in the 1950`s?
N.I.: At that time I wasn’t veiled, I would be wearing strapless, we went to clubs and parties and traveling, and this was my life there.

L.H.: Lovely, but what have to happen for there to be peace in Iraq?
N.I.: We have to have fair nice international relationships with other countries; we must have good relations so that we have peace. Nobody should interfere in our internal affairs. They should help the people of Iraq. With the mercy of God we will have peace in Iraq.

L.H.: what do you think is the biggest thing that is preventing peace right now?
N.I.: Hopefully we would have a better government in the United States that can give us a hand. GOD is merciful. We are peaceful people, we used to love Jewish people that lived in Iraq, and we love our Christian community. When I was a baby, I was breast fed by a Christian woman. When I was a little girl, we lived in an area where our Jewish neighbors would ask me as a young kid to go and light a candle on Saturdays. I used to be the one who light the candles. We are peaceful, we (?) relations with Jewish people and Christians all around us at that time.
When my daughter was going through a heart surgery in the States and she was alone there, I dreamt -and I was alone here, she was alone there- there was a cross next to her, and JESUS was standing next to her. So when I had that dream, I woke up in the morning and I told my family, don’t worry she will be safe and from that day I stopped crying. So every 15th of August which is the day I cook this special dish it's called (Dolma), and I send it to the church in Bab El-Mo`atham because it is the day of Virgin Mary and it is her religious day. So this is how we are. And I am a Muslim thank God, but I don’t have any discrimination, and I don’t have any sectarian feeling toward one sect or another. Thank God.

L.H.: Is there anything, any special message you would like to give to people in the west about what it is like to be an Iraqi woman now in your situation?
N.I.: I would love in my age to be a friend to everybody; I'd love to be a friend to Israeli people, or the American people. For me I don’t have any negative feeling even if that person is Israeli, in my age, I have no discrimination in this age.

L.H.: With all of your life experience and having your country going through several wars during your lifetime, what advice would you give to the next generation?
N.I.: In my life I witnessed the war of Rasheed Aali Jeelani, and this is like ages ago, 50 years ago. I witnessed the war with the British people. And I witnessed all the battles with Palestine and all revolutions; I remember all the wars even the 14th of July but the worse war I saw were both Bushes wars; the one of the Kuwait and this one is even more powerful on us; Bush the father and the son, they hurt us a lot. But this one is the worse.

L.H.: I'm sorry. What was the specific event during the delivery of your son when you were pregnant?
N.I.: It was the revolution against the king. On that day was my due, so they put me in a car to take me to the hospital to deliver, and in the street I saw the people in demonstrations and they were carrying the hand and the leg of the king's cousin Abdel Elah, so I was so scared. I went back home and they brought midwives for me to help me at home deliver my son. The people killed King Faisal, they killed the whole family.

L.H.: What advice would you give?
N.I.: My advice to the youth is not to interfere in politics, only studying and educating themselves and not interfere in politics. For those who want to interfere in politics, they should work on the principles of keeping good relations with the neighbors and with other countries.

L.H.: What is your best memory?
N.I.: I was very happy when I had my daughter, as a girl because I didn’t have girls, so I was so happy to have her.

L.H.: What is the greatest loss you experienced?
N.I.: I lost her father, I lost my husband. After that my whole life was in disturbance, there was no stability afterwards.

L.H.: How did he die?
N.I.: He had stomach cancer. He died out of cancer, he lived only one month and then he died it was sudden

L.H.: So how many years did he have?
N.I.: He was 64 then. Its 27 years so far.

L.H.: What are some of those challenges that you faced as a widow?
N.I.: Being alone is the most difficult part. I was living alone, its hard.

L.H.: How did you support your family?
N.I.: By that time they finished their education. At the beginning of my family, I was sawing and making dresses. But after my husband died, I was basically living on the rents that I receive from the premises we have and on the pension, although it was very modest, but we lived contented with that. Life was reasonable then, it was cheap, we didn’t witness as much inflation as we do now. At times we were renting a whole house for 5 Dinars. Now nobody is paying the rent, everybody is paying in the premises, we have free of charge.

L.H.: So you have no control over your property?
N.I.: In Iraq there is no dominance of law, there is no respect for the government, the people do not respect the government and therefore there is no application of rules and regulations.

L.H.: Is there something you hope to do, something special you hope to do before you leave this life?
N.I.: I wish to go to the states; this is what I want to do before I go. Since the time of Saddam, I wanted to go to the states as a tourist, but Saddam did not allow us to travel so I've seen London, also Russia, I did not see it, but I don’t like it. A tourist trip to London costs a hundred dinars only, so that’s why I managed to see all these countries, I went 4 times to Saudi Arabia, I've been to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, in all I went with my husband in tourists.

L.H.: Thank you